Tried to enhance it two more ways. Added the two new ones plus one of the previously posted photos to the bridge file.
Been a while since I've posted--gotta retrain the operator.
For some reason your enhanced image isn't attached to this bridge. I think it does help. Can you enhance the other one as well?
I had checked that. I couldn't find a High Fall, NJ and High Falls, NY is elsewhere.
Visually many points correspond. Maybe High Fall NJ where card printed? Going to say 74.6 % probability ! Any one else?
Dom & Dana,
I found a second stereo view image that looks exactly like the first but looking upstream (note the railing, piers and dam). However, it is labeled High Fall, NJ. I think the label is incorrect. What to do you think?
Thought you might like this most recent update (09 Oct. 2018) projecting the new Neversink River Bridge in Port Jervis is now expected to be completed in about a year.
Here are a few trade journal articles with imagery:
Great picture Luke. Where can I find pictures of the construction of the Guymard Cutoff?
This was the site of the Yellow Brick Road scenes in the movie "The Wiz" (1978).
The PBS NOVA special 'Operation Bridge Rescue' was fun to see but, unfortunately, much of it focused on the creation of this replica. The wood joinery was nice, but they seemed to spend more time explaining how the historic Chinese wooden arch bridges functioned than explaining the function of a truss or showing how different truss designs work.
Even sadder, they didn't spend time showing the restoration of original truss bridges, either wood or iron. Nor did they really explain the story of the evolution American truss bridge, just stating they were designed locally and organically to regional designs. I'm not sure if the educational content of NOVA has gone down or if this is on par for NOVA but I'm disappointed because I know something about the topic.
That said, its fantastic that the community found the resources to recreate this bridge and that the builders did a beautiful job.
Yes, most certainly Groton.
Cady street is mislabeled as Clinton Street on G-Maps. Clinton Street runs NE-SW but the part extending toward the canal is the remains of Cady.
The 1908 map with bridge and mill is here:
This bridge spans the Oneida River not the Seneca River.
Interesting shadow on sat views, any one near for a site visit?
Might actually be a Dam?
Per forum AKA Underwood bridge
The bridge is known as Underwood Bridge. Is there some way for you to include the name here?
Thanks in Advance!
pipe line crossing in view on photo still extant on sat views
Comment is of course wrong. Bridge was there in 2011, but is gone now. Streetview has some really old and blurry views of the bridge, but the satellite view is much more current and shows it's been replaced by some boring concrete thing.
Nice find, Mike!
I'm sure that's the one George. Multi year project. had asked permission to photo new and old bridge but was told no. Honor that as a responsible bridge hunter.
Thanks,Dana and Kay.I saw a commercial about visiting New York and it showed this bridge with a N/S train going over it.I am pretty sure this is the bridge because the commercial mentioned the state park.I'm pretty sure this is the only bridge in the park,isn't it?
Mike if pin is correct must be "Old" Lake Avenue bridge in background!
George this is new NS trestle, American Bridge Company, Cant view without Trespassing yet. Park Roads still closed in this area.
Dana,where is the N/S trestle located?
Thanks for the assist Luke, Really awesome stonework every where n Park. Only put up the one culvert as example But many many on 20 mile drive through park. NS Trestle still closed for viewing though.
The CCC and WPA were two similar but different work relief programmes.
According to https://livingnewdeal.org/projects/letchworth-state-park-cas..., Letchworth was a CCC park, not a WPA park.
http://www.letchworthparkhistory.com/cccwork.html has more in-depth stuff about what was build by the CCC in the park.
Was all the stonework within Letchworth State Park constructed by the WPA or the CCC during the Great Depression? Or was the CCC part of the WPA?
..Begone foamers!... .
Not the first example of an overpass being referred to by locals/railfans as a tunnel.
Not to have an opinion one way or the other, this is referred to on railfan sites as Mudville Tunnel on Erie Cutoff.
WPA Culvert worth stopping and visiting!
..............don't feed... .
Yes that stone structure in street view is pretty neat.
My guess is that it allows the old canal to pass over Brandy Brook like a very short aquaduct.
A similar structure exists at 43.133835, -75.673702 where another small stream passes under the canal.
Those structures probably date to the construction of the canal. Looks like an interesting area to visit.
Nice Find Matt!
I wish I were closer to here--there is what appears to be a very old Pratt truss footbridge over the canal about a half-mile north of this location. Lat/Long coords:
Canal St. streetview shows a good view of the east end.
Thanks Don, Street view I added panned left Shows interesting Masonry Arch Culvert that could be canal era. Realize NBI pins to be off, some by continents but found it interesting pin was RIGHT on it. Does appear to be what could be the stringer in question on canal Street/and or rt46. Site visit will clarify. Ill add to list! So many bridges so little time
I'm nowhere near there, but older NBI entries for the same bridge say "Old route 46", which was apparently Main Street.
I'm thinking the bridge near the intersection of Canal Street and Main Street may be the one you are looking for.
added from NBI,any one near here to check out? Sat views don't agree with NBI description.
Mike looks like you click ed twice on add. Delete this one Ill add NBI data to other.
The bridge may be gone but on of the stone support walls on the Bronx side is still in place. The area around it is no longer in the water as it was land-filled for the supports for the Willis Avenue Bridge.
The location is Willis Avenue & E132nd St.
Thanks for the interest in this.
Though laying claim to the title would be great, the Port Jervis turntable is not the largest that's operational in the U.S. but rather in the east. This distinction is noted by the Port Jervis Tri-States Railway Preservation Society in its National Geographic tourism page. https://delawareriver.natgeotourism.com/content/erie-turntab...
The total length of the Port Jervis turntable is given here as 115 ft. However, the Union Pacific Roundhouse Turntable and Machine Shop in Cheyenne, WY, reports theirs is a 126-foot diameter continuous span. https://www.cheyenne.org/listing/union-pacific-roundhouse-tu...
Art Columbia may be good, any other opinions>
Dana, its definitely not just you, the county maps are unreliable for confirming if a bridge is already on this website... hopefully James Baughn can fix that problem.
I deleted the page I made, so just leave your page up. I only was trying to add the bridge cause I found the record-breaking span length to be of interest. Although I have no idea if that length REALLY was record-breaking.
There is some weird bug on Bridgehunter in which some bridges are NOT shown on the county clickable Google map. This may be why many contributors post duplicate bridges by mistake. This bridge for example did not show up on the county map browser.
Also I have no idea where the measurements shown on this page came from. According to a local news article, this bridge was claimed to be the longest clear-span double-track through plate girder span in the USA when completed. Design: 127 foot span through plate girder, consisting of 130 foot long by 12 foot tall girders. Validity of these length claims is uncertain.
Collapse of approach span railing took place in 2018.
May not have RR correct, this bridge partially collapsed yesterday
with attached 1914 postcard view
wonder if this is Walton bridge before move? Owls head lane near there
Saratoga & North Creek, ex D&H
Delaware and Hudson RR?
No, because NKP's NY terminus was Buffalo.
Do you think it could have been the New York, Chicago and St. Louis
1943 topo from historicaerials only shows Erie on the line, so it's probably remnants of an Erie advert ca 1941, when their absorption of the Nypano Railroad gave them a route into Chicago.
Really cool when stuff like that still exists.
Yes. Do not know. Try New York State DOT
Other RR run across this line? I can make out "New York Chicago..."
Is there still construction on the bridge ? Is there still a line closed? If so, when will the work be completed. Thank you
Bridge is own and operated By Nassau County DPW. 2nd rehab was performed approximately 2008, leaf decking and exspansion joint replacement
I remember this bridge while growing up in Washingtonville lived in the park.
left in 1978 believe about time line closed. So sad seeing it in closed. Did you happen to see the steel plate on it with bridge information was wondering year it was built? Thank you so much for taking photos.
That's what puts the "hunt" in Bridgehunter. 8^)
If any one is driving looking for Everman may be hard to find!
Road sign in google streetview says Everman Road.
Google shows White Bridge Road intersects a bit west of the bridge, but Bing calls the road Applinville Road.
Take your pick, I guess.
"Local Sources" indicated bridge removed. Confirmed!
Google, NBI,at al list this as Everman Road. Road sign from site visit Says Applinville Road.
wonder what was there in 1902? Thanks for the research!
From the 1902 Wayland, NY 15' quad. The old alignment is visible just to the left of center.
At least someone learned from that ordeal, because the cause of the ordeal sure didn't learn from it. :')
That thing is incredible, thanks for posting.
Is this nick named silver car bridge?
Looks like it wintered well.
Nice bridge! Thanks for making the journey! I notice in photos 5 and 6 that no one cleared the snow......
Thanks Dave, feel free to name as appropriate not sure Lock 29 Bridge is really correct.
A stone Arch Aqueduct, a 1914 Phoenix, and an 1858 Whipple from one park point. Certainly worth a detour off the Thruway if ever in New York
It looks more like it reads "ALONZO PEASE, COM" to me. Seems like he was on a Board of Supervisors in the 1870's, probably a Commissioner at some point. At the very least he was a prominent citizen in the area.
The original turntable was built in 1854. The one presently on the site was not. 1854 turntables were constructed differently and were much smaller.
BH Photo #376353 (number 8) is of another bridge, not on this site.
This Bridge in danger or destruction.
Wow. If they named that monstrosity in my honor, I'd be rolling over in my grave. UCEBish is mostly correct, you just need a space between the B and the i. UCEB. Ish. That is a more apt description!
That's why I used the "gloat plate" comparison in the first place.
As to why, your guess is as good as mine, as John's found bridges in the middle-of-nowhere that are completely over-built and over-engineered for being in the middle-of-nowhere.
As for the " Nor did the highway Dept. "design" bridges" quip, that depends entirely on the DOT. I know Iowa designed their own, led by Marston and briefly by McCollough, and their subordinates who are unmentioned by name. Nonetheless, the designs were in-house designs by already-hired staff, not outside contractors.
And there /are/ railroads who have in-house designs, but 1) There's no clear proof of that with this plaque, much less the railroad from the scant research I've done. 2) Those departments had specific names, like "Mont Claire Shops" in the case of the B&O or "Oakland Shipyard" in the case of SP's transbay ferries, not just the railroad tossed in the builder box.
Thinking about this a little more a I am wondering, how is listing the RR really "gloating" seems listing the president or chief Eng. might actually be gloating as well, why would you post it on a bridge, at the time of completion, when there is zero expectation it will ever be seen by anyone other than a few RR employees who already know the RR built it? Gloat plate just does not ring true.
1) You demanded I post proof of builders and gloat plates using the same plaque shape.
2) My argument was, and still is, that the NYC&HR on that plaque is nothing more than the "County Name" on a dedication/gloat plate.
It's a giant "Hello! My name is:" sticker.
IF they'd built it, they'd have mentioned their own iron/steel works, a la B&O and their Mont Claire Shop, but they don't, they explicitly mention A&P Roberts Co./Pencoyd.
One of several bridges (I never specified railroad.) you can find across the site where the "dedication plates" and builder's plates are the same.
2) Warrens with verts handle loads differently than those without verts
Same with Camelback, which is a derivation of the Parker type with a polygonal top chord of exactly five slopes.
Denoting subtypes that are functionally different from the original type isn't a redundancy.
Arches have been made from: Stone, brick, iron, steel, concrete, and even plastics (Though those currently stay in test labs.)
Specifying which type of arch (Concrete arch, Brick arch, Stone-and-brick arch, etc.) it is, isn't a redundancy. It's specificity.
If you're referring to the "Concrete" category Amanda created, it's pointless.
"Railroad" as a genericism exists in case James wants to install a filter people can use to filter all railroad bridges out.
Nice review in today's New York Times of a graphic novel/comic book entitled The Bridge: How the Roeblings Connected Brooklyn to New York. which is about to be published. I look forward to buying a copy.
Here's the book review in NYT: "Building the Brooklyn Bridge, in Graphic Detail" https://nyti.ms/2H1pCLp
"6) The "free market economy" cannot exist without governmental regulation. The moment you strip that away, the moment the free market ceases to exist and we veer further towards an oligarchy."
Wow, do you have the name of the laundry which did your brain washing? Oligarchy only exists when the government supports it. The main function of a just government is to prevent stealing and to make sure no one is forced to do things against their interest or wishes. Oligarchs generally use governments to enforce policies in their interest. If the oligarchs did not have government policy on their side they would cease to exist.
Take Walmart for example. They have been, since at least the Clinton administration, working to make politics work in their favor. Tax abatements, zoning, etc. If Walmart isn't benefiting directly they work to prevent competition from springing up through regulation which act as a barrier to entry for competition.
Do you suppose Carlos Slim, the Mexican telecom billionaire has to think very long about who would be his friend in the government?
The way to make a fortune into a massive fortune is to make the government your business partner, and limit your competition.
Please provide a couple of those numerous examples of gloat plates (listing politicians or executives that look like RR builder plates).
Provide the builder plates for the RR in question.
I added it as shown on the BUILDERS PLATE, Unlike others I did not edit it to my personal specifications, to appease my sense of...?
Yes Warren is a subtype, so? It is still redundant, it is not needed, it is simply a way to further describe what you have already described. "Concrete arch" and "concrete" categories. It is made of concrete? DUH it is a concrete arch. "Norfolk Southern Railway" is a "Railroad"? Dude, I am now laughing so hard I am almost crying, are you actually defending these as not redundant?
Free Market can only be regulated? You obviously do not understand either concept. Free Market=voluntary interactions=Moral. Regulated=supported by force (ultimately death as every single law is)=Immoral. It is shocking that an adult educated person in America could confuse the two.
Yes there are shades of grey in life. However, you are mistaken if you believe every government is not "evil". All governments are run on the bases of a monopoly of force and support of laws through aggression, intimidation and coercion (immoral). The very definition of tyranny is a government the prohibits actions to its people while it, itself, retains those actions. Ask yourself this-Do you have the Right to take your neighbors money without his permission? Do you have the Right to instigate aggression against your neighbor? If you do not, which I believe any reasonable person would agree, then how can you properly delegate a Right, you do not have, to the government. The founding Fathers were very aware of this, this is why the were insistent that if we allowed a government to use force over us that we would severely limit their authority but like all governments, they simply ignored the constraints and do as they please.
With that said, the plaque is pictured in the thread, do you think it is a builders plate, intended to show NYC&HR as the builders of the bridge?
Please remember that the world consists of shades of grey. No system is perfect. Not all governments are evil, not everyone who works within a bad organization is bad.
I've seen lots of well intentioned people/organizations do horrible things for the 'right' reasons and I've seen evil/bad people do really good things (not necessarily for the right reason...).
On old truss bridges there are often two plaques installed by the builder: 1. the builder's plaque. 2. the plaque listing the freeholders who gave the builder the job.
Actually, on Carlton Bridge it was the freeholders plaque that allowed the build date to be corrected as there was only a narrow window when the three served together!
Just my two cents.
1) Again, dogwhistles.
2) There are numerous examples of political gloat plates being the same pattern plaque as the manufacturers.
3) It is a redundancy, as the way you've added it, it's the same name as the railroad category, just in the oh-so-ironic reporting mark format.
4) It's a proposal for when we have actual proof of a "Railroad Bridge Department" designing/building/erecting the bridge.
We have Railway Age articles saying that MILW built their own concrete bridges.
John has made the supposition that Northern Pacific designed all their bridges, and has made cited arguments to support.
No such citation has been made here.
5) Warren w/ all verts is a subtype. Arches have been built in multiple mediums, so concrete is a valid identifier for categorization, as is "railroad".
6) The "free market economy" cannot exist without governmental regulation. The moment you strip that away, the moment the free market ceases to exist and we veer further towards an oligarchy.
1) The states did not choose the contracts, the counties did. And therein lies the source of the problem: Counties got bribed by companies to give them their lucrative annual bridge contracts (e.g. Webster County gave N.M. Stark the contract for all their concrete bridges in 1911.), and no state-level oversight led to those contracts going unchallenged.
The ISHC only mandated that bridges and roads be built to their standardized plans, and that bidding be open to all on a bridge-by-bridge/road-by-road basis instead an annual basis.
Creating an open, level bidding field is not "socialism", as you keep dogwhistling about.
2) We don't treat every builder plate the same. Hence why we omit politician names and only list the contractor and engineer/design firm from plates that feature both.
3) Redundant categories is not a deflection. It is a valid concern. You believe that the railroad should be listed as the designer. I know this won't end up being limited this to this bridge (Think "If you give a mouse a cookie."), and then we'll (Yet again.) have multiple categories for the same things.
Hence why I pitched using a singular generic "Railroad Forces/Railroad Bridge Department category (Also not a deflection. Pitching a plausible solution != deflection.) in which one can specify the railroad within parenthesis, like I went in and did with Mr. Wilgus as the chief engineer of the NYC&HR.
And to reply to your comment of "Thank you, however, for your valuable opinions, you are spot on, on many subjects.":
Thank you for actually doing fieldwork and taking numerous photographs of structures, especially remains.
John and yourself do a lot of legwork taking multiple hi-res detail shots of bridges some users wouldn't even bother visiting.
So while we may disagree a LOT, I can still appreciate your contributions as much as you seem to appreciate mine.
Not really, as those are still monopolies. Single companies still had exclusive control within those districts, making it impossible for local builders to flourish, or for another competitor to make a dent.
And the state didn't cause these monopolies to form. The problem was that prior to formation of the ISHC, the was little to no uniformity between the counties, and even less oversight. (Which I'm sure you'll somehow argue isn't a bad thing, based on the reply you posted while I was typing this up. I mean, it's not like a complete lack of oversight caused the banking crisis and fucked the world economy... ...Or unchecked lobbying (AKA legalized bribery) in our own government resulted in a government that listens to corporations more than their own constituencies or anything like that...)
And it's not deflection to correct you on your own historically inaccurate rebuttal to my point.
And my point still stands that the "NYC&HR" on the plaque doesn't actually mean anything related to the builder, and that your statement that "the railroad built the bridge" is false.
The plaque states that NYC&HR's then-chief engineer (Un-fun fact: He was ousted after an electric locomotive designed by him had a fatal derailment.) designed it, and that A&P Roberts fabricated/built it.
What the plaque doesn't actually tell us, is if railroad forces, day laborers, convict labor, or A&P Roberts themselves erected the bridge. You're purely guesstimating that they're the ones who erected it.
And your challenge is incorrect, as prior to DOTs (Then-called Highway Commissions) standardizing designs, only a few companies built bridges in a given region, snuffing out local competition.
In Iowa, the case was that the bridge companies had divided the state into districts, with certain companies having monopolies over their district.
e.g. Clinton Bridge & Iron Works in northeastern Iowa, J.E. Jayne & Sons (Re-badged Stupp Bros.) in Johnson County, the King & WIBCO duopoly in western Iowa, etc..
It wasn't until the ISHC standardized bridge designs (With multiple uncredited "underling" engineers beneath Conde McCullough and Anson Marston.) that those districts were really busted and small local contractors flourished.
It's already listed, you've just created a duplicate, superfluous category in a different box.
As for the rest of your drivel, I suggest you actually read up on the Iowa Stat Highway Commission's standardized designs and the Michigan Standardized Bridge Designs before bloviating.
That counterargument would work if and only if most state DOTs hadn't have designed their own standardized bridges in order to bust monopolies. (Iowa, Michigan, etc.)