Recent Mississippi Comments
Post a comment Contact webmasterBridge 104.9 on Natchez Railway. Originally built by Mississippi Central Railroad sometime between 1907 and 1935. Spans believed to have been used on another railroad before being moved here. Four 100 foot TRT spans on Cylinder Piers. 138 foot ballast deck wood approach span.
Thank you for posting these photos and comments. I am a family researcher especially interested in Tippah County, MS. I have a special interest in specifically where people lived and would like to know more about the roads and communities in the past. I didn't know CR 600 was old Hwy 72. I would like to know more about that.
One of five Melan arch bridges that are documented extensively in HAER: http://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/ms0322/
Someone on BridgeHunter who has more time than me might be able to match and upload the correct photos from the HAER documentation to each of the five bridges as listed on Bridgehunter. In HAER, all five bridges are documented together, which makes it confusing. It looks like the drawings have UTM coordinates which might help.
Mixonception
Mixon / Mixson coincidence ??
You're incorrect, Mick. Read all three of my posts. There are two new bridges, one north and the other south of Greenwood. The one that appeared in the movie is SOUTH of Greenwood. The one that she was pictured walking over in the magazine and that she said was similar to the bridge she wrote about in the song was the one near Money, NORTH of Greenwood.
MW, Toronto
Road still is Burroughs Rd even though it now bypasses this old bridge that I grew up playing and driving on.
As of Sept 22, 2012, this bridge was closed. It had a posted weight limit of 4T and was blocked.
Isn't a "swing" but turrent. It was design to be hand cranked to open position to allow steamboats & tugs to pass under it. It was design that way, but shipping that far north on this river was over by the time it was built. Commercial shipping would not return until the 1980's with the Tenn-Tom Waterway, which by-passed this part of the river.
@Michael Watson wrote: "Here is the new bridge ... (i)t is located 10 miles north of Greenwood, at Money, MS."
The map above clearly shows that the bridge of the song is SOUTH of Greenwood. And only 3-4 miles, not 10.
I remember the bridge as far back as 1948 when we drove to Vicksburg to visit the military park. Later, when I was in the Army, I used to cross it on a regular basis. It was toll most of the time, with a plant inspection also being conducted at the toll booth at the Mississippi end. Going across on a bus was an experience. The busses were so wide they had to squeeze against the side rails when passing other busses or trucks. I also recall traffic backing up at the ends when a larger than normal load, such as a house trailer, crossed. It sometimes took a half-hour or longer to clear the bridge. Being on the bridge when a fast freight train crossed was also an experience to remember. The last time I crossed must have been about 1988, when I drove over it to show my family. That time there were three horses at the Louisiana end, waiting for clearance to cross. By that time there were no trucks using it, and few cars, as US 80 on the Louisiana side had become so ragged about all one could do was get off the bridge and head for I20.
My grandfather Ed Matthews drew the plans for the bridge. He and his father, Charles P. Matthews didn't get the contract, but the company that did had to hire Ed Matthews to build the bridge!
Aerial view on Bing Maps
It should be noted the Eddiceton Bridge is no longer open to thru traffic.
This bridge was subjected to arson several years back. It was already abandoned at that time though.
I tried to visit this bridge, but was faced with a locked gate about half a mile from the bridge. I approached it from the southern end. The gate is just north of the intersection between Old Hwy 61 and Hanknson Rd. I was in a hurry and didn't have time to talk to any of the neighbors.
I'll be out that way on Monday, so I'll try to check it out if time(and the neighbor) permits it.
Actually no, it doesn't. The bridge is still attached to the pier, and it is still at an angle.
The Bing Maps bird's-eye view shows the remaining span finally fallen over on its side. The pic of the "teeter-totter" was funny, though!
Wow, never seen a bridge collapse look like that before.
This bridge has only one span remaining, and it has tipped over its abutment with one end in the water and the other pointing to the sky. Here's a couple links to photos.
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/868751
There's someone standing on the end of it in this photo
The sign isn't what would concern me... it would be the bent endpost. At least it looks bent in the photo. And crudely patched with plate.
I can't believe the Google Street View Car actually drove across it.
The only way it could be any less inviting is if they wired up a loudspeaker system to play a sound byte of a pump action shotgun being pumped when you started to cross the bridge.
Nothing more inviting than a "cross at your own risk" sign.
This bridge is privately owned and is not maintained by the State of Mississippi or the Franklin County Board of Supervisors.
Thanks. I corrected it.
The item someone states as part of an older bridge is modern and looks to me to be a barge tie-up.
The Google Satellite image shows that this bridge has been demolished and replaced by 2 other bridges.
I might not write exactly the same standards if I ever wrote a book on art in bridge design, but good solid thinking from a century ago, still very readable and germane. I don't think I've ever seen anything similar in modern engineering curricula. Lots of nice illustrations.
This is a great find, Nathan!
Clark is right about portal ornamentation on truss bridges. Metal truss bridges in the late 19th century were viewed as utilitarian and adding finials and portal cresting were often seen as superficial attempts to make the ugly look beautiful. At the same time, note that these ornamentations do not cloak the design and materials of the bridge. However, I would argue that the use of concrete urn balustrade railings and embossed lines on a concrete arch would be an example of true aesthetic design because the railings serve a function purpose on the bridge, but have been designed in a manner that makes them look beautiful. Embossed lines on a concrete arch, provided they did not simulate stone patterns, would be good aesthetics.
This early 20th Century text on bridge aesthetic theory summarizes an aesthetic bridge here: http://www.archive.org/stream/artisticbridgede00tyrr#page/20/mode/2up
These are the elements of an aesthetic bridge:
1. Conformity with environment.
2. Economic use of material.
3. Exhibition of purpose and construction.
4. Pleasing outline and proportions.
5. Appropriate but limited use of ornament.
Note that superficial ornamentation is NOT forbidden, but just need to be used modestly and should not be the only and primary source of beauty.
Looking at Michael's example of a pre-stressed slab with arch facade, that bridge, likely billed by the DOT as a beautiful "context sensitive" bridge actually fails #2 (slab, box-beam, and stringer bridges are VERY inefficient in use of materials), #3 (arch hides the box-beam design). It might fail some others too, but those points could be argued either way.
To me these things are like Costume Jewelry.
Some of them might look good... But they have no real value.
These adorned modern structures hold little appeal to me although they do invoke a slight nostalgia for the old forms. Embossed concrete at least resembles the old ashlar abutments and is an improvement over the unadorned brutalist style of the last part of the 20th century.
I am pleased when I see on an older bridge an attempt to provide some visual interest. Urn shaped railings, portal ornamentation, or a few lines embossed in the "streamline moderne" style were not needed and may have drawn scorn from people who hated to see wooden or stone bridges replaced with iron or concrete.
We may at least be encouraged to see designers again seeing bridges as structures that should be visually appealing.
I agree with Nathan. There is a big difference between a bridge that actually historic or at least represents an attempt at creative engineering, and one that is an imposter. In my opinion, all fake historic bridges (by fake I mean structural elements concealed) and all MOBs do not belong here.
I am fine with including a modern suspension bridge, modern arch, or modern truss if the design is also the actual structure. Those modern bridges could be considered unique, and may be appreciated by future generations. MOBs are mass-produced and IMHO do not represent anything special.
A modern bridge with superficial decorations is nothing special, just a bunch of fakery. Instead of simply MODERNE/NON HISTORIQUE, it is ROUGE A LEVRES A UN COCHON! (LIPSTICK ON A PIG). Courtesy of translate.google.com
The use of things like stone-shaped concrete formliners and the use of arch-shaped facades that cover up a box beam superstructure go directly against what the bridge engineers of old thought. Engineers like David Steinman felt that aesthetics should be derived directly from the bridge structure. They absolutely despised the idea of covering up the reality of a structure with fake adornments to create a false sense of design.
In David Steinman's "Bridges and Their Builders" he states "The story of each bridge also includes a revealing and illuminating record of the life of the times in which it was built."
The question, then, that I would post to this discussion is "What message do our bridges send to future generations?" Bridges like these, composed of super and substructures whose design is beyond ugly and have been made tolerable by the addition of facades and superficial embellishments send a message that in today's society we are content with a lie. We are content with a bridge that is fake and sends a false message.
The decision to demolish and replace a historic bridge that could be rehabilitated (often for less than the cost of replacement) is a choice. It is also a choice to build a concrete box beam bridge and cover it up with fake arch facades. Future generations will look back at these bridges and what will they see? They will see a society that was wasteful, shallow, and simply did not care. Don't believe me? Ask a historian what they think about the urban renewal period of the 1960s, where some of the greatest structures ever built in the United States were destroyed to make way for strip malls and freeways.
Robert/Ben,
The pylons in the bridge are most likely stamped concrete and are painted to look like brick, and chair rail, and whatever--the stamped concrete concept is very popular on new bridges these days. A bridge in Minnesota, I-694 over CR-81 in Brooklyn Park, has pylons that appear to be made entirely out of classic brick, along with the abutments--they're not, though...all stamped and painted concrete.
I am torn when in comes to modern bridges and slap on aesthetics. On one hand I agree that the bridge looks “cheap” and why both dressing up an eyesore concrete bridge. Then I think about the future and realize that not everything lasts forever. Historic bridges will continue to be replaced and concrete bridges will continue to be constructed.
With this in mind, I think I would rather see an attempt to add some aesthetic charm to a bridge rather than just another eyesore side of a girder or plain concrete face.
Here are a couple modern dressed up concrete bridges that I think the attempt was somewhat successful. However, I will not be adding any of these structures to this site.
1. Moffett Creek Bridge - Interstate 84 - Multnomah Co. Oregon - Stone verneer covering prestressed girder bridge
2. Williams Creek Bridge - OR 138 - Douglas Co., Oregon -
Arch facade covering prestressed slabs
Thanks. I wouldn't be surprised if they were covering something else up either. I'll be heading that way in February. Maybe I'll take a closer look...or maybe I'll just focus more time on locating those 1940s arch bridges in the area.
Hard to say for certain about those arches. My personal suspicion is they just cover some very plain looking concrete pylons, but I don't know for certain.
What repulses me is when non-historic elements are treated as being something special: http://historicbridges.org/truss/shanley/
http://historicbridges.org/truss/shanley/little_slab.jpg
In the above case, a new bridge utilized unpainted steel and stone veneer as if these materials were somehow special.
These arches are probably in the same category.
Do the arches in pic#2 provide structural support or are they just cosmetic? I'm not very knowledgeable in this area.
When adding a modern bridge, I consider which elements of the bridge actually serve a function of supporting the structure. If the bridge is interesting due to actual structural elements, I am generally okay with it being on here. However, superficial decorations like those that are found on this bridge do not make it interesting. To me, artificial decorations such as fake stone, etc just look cheap. Thus this bridge in my opinion does not belong.
Neither would this one as far as I am concerned, which is why I have not added it:
This one could be argued as notable given it's attempt to have some character rather than be bland.
I feel that the original contributer really liked the hacienda motif.
MODERNE/NON-HISTORIQUE!
MODERNE/NON-HISTORIQUE!
MODERNE/NON-HISTORIQUE!
23rd Over the River Run is October 8!!
http://www.vicksburg.org/all-news/3-newsflash/632-23rd-annual-over-the-river-run
The SCHF is pleased to announce the 23rd Annual Over the River Run. The Foundation along with many sponsors and volunteers presents this very special community venture and it promises to be one of the biggest yet. This event welcomes hundreds to the City of Vicksburg and will serve as a wonderful family event. It will take place on Saturday, October 8th at 8:00am and begins at the Old Mississippi River Bridge located at I-20 and Washington Street. This delightfully unique run follows a scenic course heading west across the Mississippi River across to Delta, Louisiana and then returns back to the finish line. The event involves a 5-mile run, 5-mile walk and a one-mile fun run for kids. Sign up for the race. Sponsorship opportunities are now available. After expenses, proceeds from the race will benefit the Southern Cultural Heritage Foundation. For more information, please call the SCHF office at 601-631-2997 or email info@southernculture.orgThis e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it .
1974 Sumrall quad shows no crossing, so it's not recently closed. Water is shown as Bowie Creek.
Bing Maps shows a better view of this site a possible candidate for Miss Vaughn's old truss bridge. There was or appears to be something present, long abandoned.
I just have a quick question. There is {or there was 3 years ago when i left MS} an old truss bridge on the Covington-Lamar county line on Hwy 589 going toward Sumrall. Are there any pics of it on your site? I have looked,but,maybe i missed it.
Thank You,
Jenny Vaughn
1988 topo quad shows this bridge on "Old Railroad Grade". 1953 NH 15-3 Natchez 1:250,000 quad shows Illinois Central RR
It appears to be a railroad bridge, but I can't find any tracks along its path on the satellite view. I found it on Bing.
In February, I'm planning on taking a trip down Natchez Trace. I'll try to visit some of these bridges that I'm adding so I can get some photos.
I was about to add a bridge on Hill Rd that looked like a swinging bridge with a missing deck, but then I found this bridge already listed. It wasn't mapped and was very vague, but the road name and description seem to add up. I'll add the coordinates.
It's 2 hours southwest of me. I'm not planning any special trips to it, but I'm sure I'll get to it eventually. I'm pretty curious about it, too.
Your right Robert, It does almost appear as if it could be a Lenticular truss....what a find that would be. More than likely it's just the distortion from the satellite imagery.
Need someone from the Mississippi branch of the Bridgehunter Nation to check it out!
This bridge appears to have vertical endposts based on Bing Imagery. It almost looks like a possible Lenticular truss, though that would be unlikely. Probably a Parker, but very much worth of investigating either way.
Bridge still exists beside new bridge.
I believe that my great-grandfather C P Matthews was the person that constructed this bridge while working for the Southern Steel Co.
or badly photoshopped-in cigarette smoke.
Picture #2 might be ghoatse, or maybe it's just late....
On a more serious note, I found a higher resolution photo that allowed me to better see the details on this bridge. http://www.flickr.com/photos/fisherbray/4784933818/
While this is a beautiful bridge that should be preserved, it does NOT appear to be a Stearns truss. It appears to be a Pratt truss that had additional verticals and floorbeams added to it to essentially double the number of panels it has. You can see that the eyebars do not connect to these added beams and the added beams are very lightweight and not historic looking. They appear to be simply welded, there is no pin or hanger detail at the added panel points. I guess you could say they converted it into a Whipple, however it is my suggestion that since the historic design of the bridge (which appears to remain in its entirety) is a Pratt that this bridge should be re categorized as a Pratt. I full restoration of this bridge, perhaps for non-motorized use, could remove these added beams and restore its proper appearance.
They're all gone now.....Ghostbusters took care of em'
Excuse me while I lolb at those terrible photoshopped "ghost" pictures
Thats on my land, it is a great place to relax before you get to the rapids downs below. My dad grew up on that place and has told me many stories, there is also two state built bridges in the same mile of river, great past times around here.GOOD FISHING TOO
Was the old bridge replaced or just bypassed? I see that the NBI info is for the new bridge.
Was this the bridge off of Due Date when they were traveling through Texas?
Looks like the missing bridge was taller than the RR bridge, so was it a clearance problem?
The reason both bridges were taken out in the middle 80's is because the 18-wheelers kept getting stuck underneath the bridge!! The height was only around 13feet 8inches which is way under the normal 14feet plus of todays structures. Hwy 82 has become an interstate in of itself since the completion of the highway all the way to Alabama four laning. Hwy 61 is fast becoming the same way from Leland all the way north to Memphis. Leland is in the perfect spot for MAJOR traffic no matter what in the next few years. People can say what they want..Interstate 69 is going to cross at Greenville because no one in their right mind is going to put over $275 million into a bridge and be built like an interstate bridge. The govt. is short of money alreay and putting another bridge at Benoit would be useless. I could see the bridge at Helena being replaced before long.!!
Does anyone know of any pictures of the old bridge being built, my uncle had some - but has passed.
I grew up in Sidon. My family is from there. The old bridge was not very far from the new bridge at all. You can still drive down to where the old bridge was. The road dead ends at the river.
The railroad is actually Kansas City Southern, although NS trains also run here as part of track use agreememts.
It was previously Illinois Central, I think.
Here's a map http://www.kcsouthern.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/system_map.pdf
This pier is the only evidence there was ever a bridge here.
Good to hear!
To my knowledge, no. The highway appears to have recently been repaved, so it may be leftover from that.
That piece of heavy equipment sitting in the foreground is an ominous sign..... Is there anything going on with this bridge David?
Impressive structure!
Here's an aerial view on Bing maps:
It looks like it was built in 1910 and never touched again in a hundred years. Amazing.
Nice find!
How unique is that!
If I had it to do over again I would like a ceremony like that!.....but would probably have to drug my wife to get her up there!!
My older brother got married on top of that bridge on November 22, 2008!!
Ed, see the page for the Tallahatchie Bridge near money, MS in Leflore County, and my comments and photos (including a recent photo of the current bridge): http://bridgehunter.com/ms/leflore/bh37512/
Michael Watson, Toronto
Here is the new bridge (seen in Aug. 2010) across the Tallahatchie River that replaced the bridge across which Bobbie Gentry was pictured walking in the Nov. 1967 issue of Life magazine (see my longer comment below). It is located 10 miles north of Greenwood, at Money, MS.
Michael Watson, Toronto
Here is the plaque at the east end of the new bridge that replaced the bridge that appeared in the 1976 movie, "Ode to Billy Joe". This is NOT the bridge referred to in the song. This bridge carries Roebuck Road (Co. Rd. 512) across the Yazoo River a couple of miles north of Sidon and 6 miles south of Greenwood.
I researched this topic for many weeks before my wife and I travelled to Leflore County on a driving trip from Toronto last month. We visited the bridges at both locations that people are talking about here.
The Tallahatchie River rises in northeastern Mississippi and makes its way through many counties and more than a hundred miles before it turns south and joins the Yalobusha River at the northern edge of the town of Greenwood. From that point downstream, the combined river is known as the Yazoo and not the Tallahatchie. The bridge about 6 miles south of Greenwood at Roebuck Road is the successor to the bridge that was featured in the 1976 movie, Ode to Billy Joe (note the spelling difference from the song). The original bridge that is seen in the movie fell down decades ago, and was located about 1000' feet to the north of the more modern bridge. On the eastern end of "new" bridge is a plaque commemorating the old bridge that was seen in the movie.
As for the bridge in the song: Gentry herself seems not to have had in mind a specific bridge when she wrote the song. The caption to the fairly well-known photo of her walking across the old bridge near Money, MS (10 miles north of Greenwood), which appeared in the November 1967 Life magazine article about her, says that it's the bridge she wrote about in the song. But if you dig deeper and read the story, she is quoted by the author of the article, who travelled with her back to Chickasaw County in the summer of 1967, as saying about the Money bridge, "This is what I had in mind", and that she "found a bridge ... that looked just like the one she remembered and sang about". So the old bridge near Money, which was torn down many years ago and replaced, was almost certainly not THE bridge that she wrote about, if indeed she had any specific bridge in mind. It's worth bearing in mind as well that Chocktaw Ridge, which features prominently in the song, is located a hundred miles away on the east side of the I-55, and not anywhere near the Tallahatchie River as it passes through Leflore County.
Michael Watson
Toronto
Craig, the bridge you're referring to is in Lafayette County and was built in 1953, long after this bridge was built. The link for this website page is below...
just north of oxford ms.,on hiway 7 is a bridge that crosses the tallahathchie river,it is a old bridge that looks similar to the ones on this post.
I don't know if the bridge is still there or not. I would love to find out. This is what I do know, that woman standing on it is breathtaking...
I looked it up and Billy Joe McAllister was supposed to have jumped off the Tallahatchie bridge in Money, MS. I don't see that one lisited on Bridgehunter. Oh well.
The railroad that uses the bridge is the Norfolk Southern, not the Kansas City Southern. God bless.
this is a hoax. there is no alligator creek in pearl river county, ms.
This bridge has been replaced:
This bridge is now closed to any vehicular traffic starting in 2010.
Bridge is still open- drove a 1988 Camry across it about three weeks ago. There are holes in the bridge's flooring- one can look down and see the river as you pass by.
It appears that the bridge is not maintained by the state, as it appears to lead to only a couple of houses on the other side. I see that the map intimates that there is a road on the other side, but I did not see anywhere else to drive after going about an 1/8 of a mile on the other side. So, I had to cross it again. I doubt it sees 10 cars in a day. There appears to be an RV camp on the Highway 84/98 side of the river, right by the bridge.
Traveled down this way about three weeks ago- used to go tubing down McCall Creek as a child. Bridge is still intact but barricaded to prevent vehicular traffic. Can still be walked across, however.
Yes, the bridge still exist. It is right outside an unincorpated town of Money,Miss. You have to stop at the general store/post office for directions. I went there about 10 years ago. You actually drive out into the side of a big cotton field to get there. There are 3 old farm workers type shacks still standing. Off to the left of them,you walk about 50 ft in the woods and you will see the bridge is still standing.
Front approach on Rankin County side has been removed- bridge is still standing but totally inaccessible by vehicle. Does not appear to be any plans to repair the structure.
Is this the bridge once known as Walker's bridge, or Walker's levee bridge?
Yet another beautiful historic cantilever demolished.
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