Oh brother, I have been talking to lawyers lately. They have got me dazed and now I am begging for food. I hope you aren’t going to bill me for this excellent analysis like the lawyers are doing?
I kid people who came on tours with me on the bridge...I won’t allow them to come on the bridge with me if you haven’t taken your Dramamine. Most of the people felt uncomfortable with the bridge motion who came on my tours...they were surprised and many felt fear.
We have a rather large saw mill near us. These guys have 12 foot tall and I believe 10 feet long tractors log beds, and then another 12 foot high by 10 feet long trailers. I was blessing these guys before they entered the bridge in case they won the lottery directly into heaven...”in the name of the father, son and holy ghost”. Everyone was going to heaven when I was on the bridge! I got a lot...most...of these trucker to hilariously laugh with me and they all had positive thumbs heading towards the sky. I was told some trucker went out of their way to come to the Hinsdale bridges just to get blessed by the ‘halo guy” Mike Mulligan. Truckers have a wonderful sense of humor. A few chased me and was mumbling something about kicking my butt if they caught me, but those were overweight and they sucked at running.
I made a lot of local noise about all the heavy logging trucks I’d seen and absolutely no NHDOT temporary weight stations three years ago. Then most of the logging truck stopped coming across our bridges.
Lately the local media and NHDOT have been bragging about the severe weight restrictions on the bridge. See, the NHDOT cares and these guys just accept without questioning what officialdom speaks. They are freaking machines to the one. I have a CDL license and am a retired truck driver.
There are no weight limitation signs approaching the bridge for the truckers. I know the highest federal legal weight limit(without permit) of 80,000 pound can cross that bridge. So where are the weight restrictions? The bridge is designated an E-2 bridge. Basically there is a much higher state limit than the federal limit. I contend NH will allow a much higher tractor trailer legal weight on the Hinsdale’s 1921 bridge than on our Interstates even with the so called severe weight restriction.
Everything about this bridge is about vague words and tricky phrases with the officials...keeping the truth out of state and federal document. Just because there is a bridge code doesn’t mean they measure it and abide by the code. It is all “I hate the government” voluntary engineering codes and it’s unenforceable!
Sad to report, drove by the bridge on I35 today and noticed it has been removed and replaced with a new bridge as part of the Turkey creek flood control project
Appears to have been replaced.
This bridge had no access from the south approach a few weeks ago. Did not try the north approach. Not a good place to have a vehicular breakdown-no civilization around anywhere and in the Springtime a great place to get stuck with no where to turnaround. Water and large ruts usually stands in the road even in the dryer months. This area is about as close to Louisiana as Indiana can get.
First, let me begin by saying I am a structural engineer. I have a degree in civil engineering and am a licensed professional engineer. I have been designing bridges for the last 13 years. Allow me to interject and address some of the technical issues being discussed here.
DESIGN LIFE: The current bridge design code in the United States for vehicular and pedestrian bridges (AASHTO) is intended to provide a nominal design life of 75 years, assuming adequate maintenance. Owners may design to a higher standard if they so choose, but in my experience most do not vary much, if at all, from the AASHTO requirements except for larger signature type bridges. Older versions of the AASHTO code provided a design life more in the range of 50 years, although I don't think it was explicitly stated. As for railroad bridges, I believe they are typically designed for a longer life, but I am not as familiar with the code governing their design (AREMA).
DEFLECTION & VIBRATION: All bridges will experience some amount of deflection under load. The repeated loading and un-loading of spans due to transient loads (truck and pedestrian) can generate the sensation of vibration, or "bouncing" as has been described here. Excessive deflection and/or vibration can cause structural issues, but it's actually not desirable primarily from a user comfort perspective. The AASHTO bridge design code indirectly addresses vibration concerns due to transient loads by limiting the allowable deflection of the superstructure. I believe AREMA addresses vibration for railroad bridges in the same way. Vibration is more perceptible by pedestrians than by passengers in vehicles, so the allowable deflection for bridges accommodating pedestrians is more stringent.
So, the short answer is yes, all bridges will deflect or "bounce" to some extent, but the design should be such that it is not enough to be overly perceptible and cause discomfort to the intended user. The issue with older bridges is often that the intended user has changed significantly, i.e., the loading has significantly increased beyond that for which it was originally designed.
I notice the tribstar story left out one of the most obvious legends, the graffiti on the main girder which says "Michelle will you marry me?" in two foot high letters. They were likely afraid it would encourage more trespassing.
Sure wish I knew how that worked out!
Bravo! Send pictures and the new name.
We have completed bridge re-assembly at its new home in RiverHead Ranch, Camp Wood, Texas. Future home of our horse ranch for special needs and underpriviledged children.
It is a beautiful bridge.
Can anyone find me a quote in news media reports that I damaged other components? I didn't! My intentions were just to get the NHDOT to nail down unattached boards to the bridge. It work like a charm until I got arrested with five counts and a felony.
“and causing additional damage to the structure...
Reasonability versus Radicalism involving a pair of New Hampshire bridges
The Charles Dana and Anna Hunt Marsh Bridges are two identical green 1920 Parker through truss spans that carry NH Hwy. 119 over the Connecticut River and its island connecting Battleboro and Hinsdale. Both are considered eligible for listing on the National Register of Historic Places. But sadly both are too narrow and need to be replaced. Replacement plans have been in the works for over 20 years, but one person tried to quicken the process by vandalizing the bridge. Mike Mulligan was arrested for pulling the wooden planks from the pedestrian boardwalk and causing additional damage to the structure as a way of justifying the need to replace the bridge. He was later released with a restraining order that he stays away from the bridge and if he needs to cross it, he must not get out of the car. Mr. Mulligan recently used James Baughn’s Bridgehunter website to justify his actions, which turned into a philosophical discussion involving the bounciness and the oil for the wheel. Needless to say he did not receive any support but he is in the running for the 2013 Smith Awards in the category “Dumbest Reason to Destroy a Bridge.” A link to the Charles Dana Bridge with the dialogue in the comment section can be found here. As for the bridges themselves, they are scheduled to be replaced but plans are in the making to convert these bridges into pedestrian crossings. But it will take 3-5 years before work actually begins, given the current budget situation in New Hampshire. Sorry Mike, but you have to deal with the current situation and grin and bear it. It’s better than going to jail and paying dearly for vandalism.
Go to www.flickr.com and type "shea bridge" into the search bar to see a lot of pictures for this bridge.
This article is over a year old, but...
You're quite welcome! I loved this old tunnel and was fortunate enough to witness several of the smoke tests that were run there as part of the big dig project in Boston. To me, this tunnel reminds me of going to Myrtle Beach as a kid. After we went through the old tunnel, we would count how many times we crossed over Paint Creek before getting to Beckley!
Sure, on all rope bridges?
Of course, all of us have been on bridges new and old and they do have a bouncing sensation. Even those that are 100-200 feet long. You should try it out before going out and trying to defame yourself by damaging another bridge. You've already been humiliated by the public for your actions. I suggest you back down from your twisted arguments that lack substance if you don't want to be named and shamed for sure, Mister.
This bridge appears to be LOOOONG gone in Google Maps.
This bridge is behind my neighborhood...
I was wondering where I could find history about the railroad or bridge. This is actually my favorite spot in Georgetown
The Wisconsin & Michigan Railroad crossed the C&NW at grade just a little north of the old C&NW station, the slab of that station is still there. They had a team track to the west of the station. Their station, round house, car shop, and other building were the pulp storage yard was later on. The city of Peshtigo got it on back tax's deal.
Trusses are good on these abandoned Prairie Creek ponies and the decks are replaceable...
So why would anyone want to go out and buy an MOB?
I think this is the PRR/NS and predecessor railroads bridge across McMahons Creek in Bellaire,Ohio,my hometown.
In your dreams...
In you dreams...
Rode along the trail today (9/14/2013). We encountered heavy gun fire in the area. Machine gun or Gatling gun fire. On the way back thru the bridge, we heard cannons and quads. Even the Amish bike riders asked us what was going on. It scared horses and riders alike. A beautiful peaceful ride? I don't think so
You are an irresponsible man. There are other ways to draw attention to the issue outside of endangering the public (pedestrians, bicyclists) who use the span.
Based on your actions, I attach little value to your opinions and observations.
Shaheen, Kuster Tour Sewalls Falls Road Bridge
“There’s a certain amount of lifetime movement on the steel before it really becomes brittle,” he said. “It’s like a paper clip. You start bending that, and all the sudden it breaks. That’s the issue that we have here.”
Hinsdale’s Sewalls Falls Bridge (July 6, 2013)
"All bridges, even our modern bridges bounce because of the weight placed on the structure by trucks."
Could you give me a engineering reference for this statement?
It is just not true...maybe move almost imperceptibly...but not bounce. Maybe wider spans...but not short ones of say of 250 feet...
I got a brand new truss bridge in mind that could falsify your statement...
So, you have been on every bridge?
They just don't make civil engineers like they used to?
The more those metal parts bend, plastic deformation and bending area made more brittle...the more likely they are to fracture and break in a short period of time.
If you ever wanted to talk to me about my case...just give me a call at 1 603 209 4206. Don't listen to any of these inaccurate nut cases about me....
THE BRIDGE ON TNE BROOKPORT,IL.SIDE IS CALLED TNE IRVING COBB BRIDGE.ON THE METRPOLIS SIDE IS THE I-24 BRIDGE.THE I-24 BRIDGE IS THE BETTER BRIDGE TO CROSS.
THE BRIDGE ON TNE BROOKPORT,IL.SIDE IS CALLED TNE IRVING COBB BRIDGE.ON THE METRPOLIS SIDE IS THE I-24 BRIDGE.THE I-24 BRIDGE IS THE BETTER BRIDGE TO CROSS.
According to the USGS maps, this bridge is also known as the Cyr Bridge.
I didn't make the macro, but the point still stands.
If you lot stop responding to him... he'll (hopefully) stop responding.
Then the buffoonery will have ended.
Uh Luke, there is a misspelling- should be immediately not what you wrote... ;-)
Thank you so much for posting this. Every time I travel I-10 I see this and wonder what's the history for this lost bridge.
Apparently someone who expects to have a bridge that lasts 125 years does not have a clue about the science of bridges, engineering and preservation. All bridges, even our modern bridges bounce because of the weight placed on the structure by trucks. The difference is today's bridges are unable to handle heavier loads and volumes of traffic because of the design used, its flaws, and lack of maintenance. You cannot have a functioning bridge unless you maintain it properly. And vandalizing a bridge just so a person can have it his/her way is actually provoking a safety hazard, Mr. Mulligan. Stupidity comes at a price and quite frankly sir, if you don't want to be named and shamed as a stupid guy that can cause a loss of life, then I suggest you leave the bridges alone, go to school and study bridge engineering to better understand the logic of it.
Everyone has the right to speak their mind whether this is the right forum or not. Disrespect has no real place for people here just ugly bridges.
If you follow the road around to the other bridge, you are on part of the old rail bed. The part of the old bridge abutment can seen on Noland Rd, though the narrow area, across from the house. However, I have no idea what the old bridge was prior to 1946. I had figured that the bypass was built between 1946-48 according to my maps.
Yes, it gets complicated. The last thing on the map company’s priority list is railroad names which is sometimes the hardest thing to unravel. Soo Lines bought the line from bankrupt Milwaukee 1n 1985 but CP already owned a big part of Soo. A few years later they bought control of Soo but continued to operate it as a separate railroad until about 2000 when they made it a part of CP. Then sometime around 2005 it became the short line Indiana Southern and now the line has some type of agreement with Indiana Railroad and Indiana RR trains operate on the track. I won't go into the two railroads that have owned Indiana Southern in the past 5 years.
Pity the poor map maker!
Thank-you for posting this, I was but I simply did not have enough infomation to post it. I remeber see this when I was going to school in SW Virgiana, some 20 years ago. The new bypass was only two years old at the time.
Is is called science, something you don't believe in.
Wiki: The original spans of the bridge east of Yerba Buena Island became the subject of concern after a section collapsed during the Loma Prieta earthquake on October 17, 1989. The replacement span is engineered to withstand the largest earthquake expected over a 1500 year period, and it is expected to last at least 150 years with proper maintenance.
Tony, Tony, Tony...
Why can’t you keep your promises?
You: “And with that I am finished engaging in any dialogue with Mr. Mulligan...”
Story about bridge being struck by drunk driver in January 2013, as well as news of bridge scheduled to be bypassed in near future. http://www.bannergraphic.com/story/1936065.html
According to the NBI, the bridge was a concrete slab built in 1955.
Not sure if this is the original railing for this bridge, but it looks like some awesome lattice railing to me.
Mr. Mulligan...If you think that anything built today will last 125 years you are delusional.
I finally decided that I did have money to burn ;)
To me, it looks like this was a temporary bridge used during construction of the new structure.
In response to Tom Hoffman's comment, I would imagine that the WVDOT will most likely build a new structure next to the current one, but it most likely won't be the same type. As an example, I submit the new I-64 bridge in Kanawha County between Dunbar & South Charleston. For several years, the old bridge was a 4-lane bottleneck between two 6-lane portions of the interstate. They first built a completely new bridge downstream from the older bridge for one-way 3-lane traffic and then rehabilitated the older structure reducing it from two-way 4-lane to one-way 3-lane structure.
This bridge has been closed to motor vehicle traffic since about 2011. It remains open for foot and bicycle traffic. It is a link in the Erie Canalway Trail.
That's not true. We don't build bridges today that last as long nor have the elegance that the truss bridges bring to the landscape.
These bridges can be restored to usefulness and save money in the long term. Alternative routes for massive farm and trucking industry vehicles can be found or they need to moderate their need to be so big. The money all comes from the same pie, different slice sizes go to different resources.
Yea well, what we see with these retired obsolete bridges...They just don’t have money keeping up with the maintenance of the bridge/ walkway in these poor economic times. They become a rusted hulk of an eyesore and a depressant to the community.
I wouldn’t mind if it was private funding...but most of it is locale, state a federal funding.
Right, it is a matter of jobs and economic growth to have an efficient highway system and to spend money in the best interest of the community.
So you would rather spend millions of dollars on a obsolete bridge that only benefits a few?
You tax many hours of commuter and business time...you steal money from schools and feeding poor people in order to restore mostly useless structures.
And by the way, this so called draft 10 year transportation is a scam. They won’t begin replacing this bridge, if at all, until they have to shut down the bridge for safety reasons.
We can build bridges today to last 125 years...
The bridge was listed as "CP" because, according to the "What's Here?" button a day ago, that's who currently uses the tack.
Now it's telling me Indiana Southern is the user, so I'll change the reporting mark.
Yeah, Wabash RR crossed its namesake river near Lafayette.
Well I see what the problem is here!
"In 2012, Berry Plastics, NSA Crane, Duke, GPC and IPL moved a combined 23,000 carloads across the bridge."
NSA Crane is a Navy weapons center and depot. For this reason this segment of the Indiana Sothern Railroad is a "Strategic Rail Corridor" according to the DOD and that is the reason Washington is paying for the improvement. Modern rail cars can weigh up to 286,000 lbs and if the Navy needs the stuff the store at Crane they don't want to have to worry about keeping the car weights down to be safe for the old bridge.
On a different, related subject why is this bridge listed as the CP Bridge. It may have, ever so briefly been owned by Soo Lines and even more briefly by CP when they took over Soo. When it was built it was Southern Indiana Railroad and from about 1910 to 1985 it was Milwaukee Road then Soo till Indiana Southern took over and then, somehow it became Indiana Railroad. It's a lot of work figuring it out but I can say that CP had only a very small part in any of it and they didn't build the bridge.
Although I read the report about this being replaced, as far as I know it has not been done yet. I added Truck Eating, since this bridge has a history of about 25 some odd strikes a year. For this reason they are intending on replacing it, however, I have a feeling this is on hold.
This is actually former Southern Railway trackage, not ex-Wabash.
Still open, easy to drive over. Approaches are clear although a bit overgrown with grass and weeds on the east end sometimes, but it's easy to use the bridge even with a car. I was on it last weekend.
They sure as hell better bring in that railroad span then!
Bad news everyone, the last of the four spans of the CGW Bridge went down yesterday. See link below:
A sad end for a bridge that could have been part of the bike trail network serving Des Moines. UP RR plans to have everything removed (piers and all) by the end of the year. :-(
Nathan (Holth), if you want to puke, I have a huge barf can for you so you can go to town and fill it up. ;-)
That's just dumb! Where the hell did they get the figures from anyway? I think there should be a better way to preserve the bridge rather than demolish it. But I guess the politicians just don't get it, do they?
I don't know who they hired, but Moline obviously hired someone with no experience whatsoever in rehabilitation of historic truss bridges since they now think its cheaper to demolish and replace this bridge rather than preserve it.
I guess the bottom line here (or at least as far as the regulars to this site go) is to see these 2 spans preserved. It is very short-sighted to say that these bridges can't be rehabilitated to continue serving traffic. But at least seeing them repurposed for pedestrians is better than seeing them cut up for scrap.
And with that I am finished engaging in any dialogue with Mr. Mulligan other than to say you are wasting your time as you will find no empathy on this forum.
The "What's here" button is pretty accurate at determining what company currently uses the line.
You're correct that SKOL/SK&O uses the line.
I just discovered this bridge thanks to Google Maps. I will let the railfans decide the appropriate company, although it might be the Southern Kansas & Oklahoma (SK&O).
It is probably a standard Pratt or Warren through truss. It is located just outside of the town of Elk Falls, which is known for a wrought iron Pratt through truss built by George E. King.
A highly over prescribed draft 10 year plan verging on fruad...
The old "The squeaky wheel gets the oil?" in the article?
New Hampshire's 10-year plan includes bridge
By DOMENIC POLI / Reformer Staff
Posted: 09/10/2013 03:00:00 AM EDT | Updated: about 3 hours ago
(Zachary P. Stephens/Brattleboro Reformer)
HINSDALE, N.H. -- There is new hope on the horizon for advocates of replacing the two bridges linking the town with Brattleboro, Vt.
A proposed $45.7 million project to rehabilitate the Anna Hunt Marsh and Charles Dana bridges for pedestrian and bicycle traffic and replace them with one that spans the Connecticut River made it onto the draft proposal of the 2015-24 N.H. Department of Transportation's 10-year Transportation Improvement Plan.
The project has the support of elected and appointed officials on both sides of the river, as they view a new bridge as a necessity for both safety and economic prosperity.
Hinsdale is reachable from Brattleboro via two Pennsylvania truss bridges built in 1920. The Anna Hunt Marsh Bridge links Brattleboro to Hinsdale Island, which is connected to Hinsdale by the Charles Dana Bridge. JB Mack, the principal planner for the Southwest Region Planning Commission, has said federal highway standards dictate the bridges are too narrow and have insufficient weight limits and vertical clearances. They are considered "functionally obsolete."
The bridges are used by emergency services and freight trucks, as people in medical distress are often taken to Brattleboro Memorial Hospital and a lot of cargo is carried across the bridges during transportation. And officials say both Hinsdale and Brattleboro benefit financially from the thousands of vehicles that use the bridges every day. People go to Hinsdale to shop at Walmart and several fireworks stores and Brattleboro has a downtown area filled with mom-and-pop businesses and eateries.
At a June 3 meeting about the project, officials agreed Vermont and New Hampshire cannot afford to have the two bridges "red-listed," or closed due to deficiencies within the next 10 years. The new bridge would begin near the stop light at the former Walmart location in Hinsdale, stretch across the Connecticut River and touch down near the Merrill Gas Company tank farm in Brattleboro.
Michael Darcy, chairman of the Hinsdale Board of Selectmen, said the project's inclusion in the 2015-24 transportation improvement plan means local officials are keeping the pressure on.
"It shows that we've put effort in the right way to get the recognition and acknowledgment we need," he said, "and the meetings to finalize the list will be starting toward the end of the month and go until Oct. 8."
New Hampshire State Rep. William Butynski (D-Hinsdale, Chesterfield, Winchester) said the first meeting Darcy was referring to is slated to be held at Hinsdale
Darcy said Hinsdale and Brattleboro are a shared community and it is important to keep the bridge issue "on the front burner." He added that inclusion to the plan equals less of an uphill battle for those advocating a new bridge.
The squeaky wheel gets the oil?
"It doesn't mean we've won, but it's a step in the right direction," he said. "We haven't won until we have the bridge. That's the end goal."
Butynski called the project's inclusion on the 10-year plan "a wonderful start" but said the objective must now be to keep it there. A project to replace the current bridges was placed on the plan in the 1990s but was eventually dropped. He said it is also vital to get the funding for the project "sooner, rather than later."
Bridge is gone, confirmed by NBI
The official reason for replacement is "The existing stone arch is deteriorating." Which is dumb, because deterioration does not imply replacement is required. Perhaps it could simply be repaired. The 5 year plan is on the county website. For your convenience I am attaching the two pages that reference the bridge.
National Register Nomination Attached.
National Register Nomination Attached.
Any particular reason they plan on removing it? Seems kinda stupid to me. Its in decent to excellent condition, and it is considered historic. I'll be contacting MNDOT and the Minnesota Historical Society to learn more and try to save it. Do you have a document Nathan?
Blue Earth County plans to demolish this bridge according to their 5 year plan. Not sure if it it just the road portion of the whole works. I assume just the road portion. Replacement structure to be precast concrete culvert. How charming.
please note i will pay for this bridge and take down at no charge to you thanks steve. ps have crain
Looks extant to me Zachary! I agree that it appears they realigned the road to the North and just abandoned the old road.
Very interesting find when looking for this bridge on Google Earth. Even though it has been listed as being lost in 2004, I think I've found it, still very much in place, on CR 818. Apparently the county road was abandoned at the bridge and re-routed a little to the north, rather than the bridge being removed. If of course the bridge is the same one as listed.
The bridge's location on the map based on NBI is a half mile or so south of CR 818, pretty typical for NBI coordinates, and as such I'll pull the bridge coordinates to the truss in the woods until further information is gathered on the matter.
What's the verdict, shall we list this one as abandoned instead of lost, or wait 'til we figure out if the one visible on Google Earth is the same truss bridge as listed here?
Funny that you say "The squeaky wheel gets oil", but with your mentality the squeaky wheel would be replaced with one that costs the taxpayers an exorbitant amount of money. Meanwhile, the squeaky wheel that only needs oil to work properly would be thrown in the dumpster.
No sir, you really don't have a clue... But if it's blasphemy you desire then you certainly have that covered!
S. York St. overpass is in Upper Allen Twp.
Sometimes the squeaky wheel gets kicked.
"The squeaky wheel gets the oil?"
Really cool little bridge. would love to see pictures of it before it was swallowed by the lake. If I remember right, it had some neat stone work, planters on the rails and stuff.
Sometimes it is best to keep thy mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.
No, I really don't think you do, sorry...
Now I know how Jesus felt.
I have tried and tried my hardest to get a good view of this bridge for a picture or two. The only way I'm going to get it without trespassing on CSXT property is to finally buy the kayak I've been wanting and kayak the Broad River. Maybe spring of 2014?
BTW, switch the map to satellite view & you can get a better view of the structure.
I don't come here often, but when I do, I prefer to read posts from ancient Greeks who go unnamed or deceased engineers. Legends in there own time, not so much.
Stay anonymous and posthumous, my good friends.
Ooohh! My economy feels so stimulated.
Here is another relocated bridge mess for somebody to sort out. This is the bridge in its original location. Here is its current location: http://bridgehunter.com/tx/brazoria/bh50237/
For the benefit of future researchers, the plaque from the historic bridge is now held by the Camden County Historical Society.
UP is upgrading this bridge. Trestle approach to be replaced, piers to be reinforced.
I believe the below article refers to this bridge... which is apparently to be demolished and replaced by the federal government. Yes folks, you heard right this privately owned historic railroad bridge will be demolished and replaced with YOUR tax dollars for the benefit of a private corporation. Private railroad companies are destroying enough of our history. I do NOT want my tax dollars making the problem worse. http://www.wbiw.com/local/archive/2013/09/grant-to-pay-for-r...
Generally, I get this from people who all they like to do is sit on the butt and never take chances…
And this replacement bridge actually had some thought put into it. Instead of just slapping the trusses on a slab they really did a good job with the overall design and made them stand out nicely.
Not as good as rehabilitating the truss bridge itself... but better than nothing.
How about "A Legend In His Own Mind"!?
If this is in reference to the old bridge that would've connected Broad Street to Elm Shade Road, I have a photo of what's left of it and you're welcome to use it!
Please don't engage the loonies....
A legend in your time? Really? Holding a sign makes you a legend? Really?
The truss bridge was listed as built in 1920 and rehabilitated in 1961. The current bridge is indeed a pre-stressed concrete box beam. Trusses likely placed as decorations as mitigation for Section 106. While this is not a form of preservation, for a Section 106 mitigation, I consider this a good outcome since some original bridge material is saved.