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This is pretty sad that this bridge has been destroyed as it was the only bedstead in the direct Louisville, KY area. If anyone has any info on its history, please chime in.
Any clue about this bridge? Seems historic, but newly relocated to this place.
According to http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-city/index.ssf/2011/02/hist...
1908: Hawley Pulp & Paper Mill built at the site.
Operated thru 2011 under various names, last of which was Blue Heron.
Does anyone have a link to history of the mill complex? There are a lot of unanswered questions about this place.
Nathan, Yeah, I hate to see little hidden treasures like this one go. Seems if they're not being torn down by idiots then they're dying from neglect. I must admit this one captivated the imagination a little, picturing what was U.S. 68 once upon a time crossing this. I would be curious to know when this was by-passed, much like I wish I had more info on the history of it's cousin down in Higginsport. At least the Higginsport Bridge does not seem to have the abutment issues this one did, but it has been engulfed by many a flood. I have to wonder what hope there is for abandoned structures like these?
Actually The high fixed bridge side was built in 1978 and the Extended section was built in 2005-2006
Scheduled for replacement:
That's why I used the "gloat plate" comparison in the first place.
As to why, your guess is as good as mine, as John's found bridges in the middle-of-nowhere that are completely over-built and over-engineered for being in the middle-of-nowhere.
As for the " Nor did the highway Dept. "design" bridges" quip, that depends entirely on the DOT. I know Iowa designed their own, led by Marston and briefly by McCollough, and their subordinates who are unmentioned by name. Nonetheless, the designs were in-house designs by already-hired staff, not outside contractors.
And there /are/ railroads who have in-house designs, but 1) There's no clear proof of that with this plaque, much less the railroad from the scant research I've done. 2) Those departments had specific names, like "Mont Claire Shops" in the case of the B&O or "Oakland Shipyard" in the case of SP's transbay ferries, not just the railroad tossed in the builder box.
Thinking about this a little more a I am wondering, how is listing the RR really "gloating" seems listing the president or chief Eng. might actually be gloating as well, why would you post it on a bridge, at the time of completion, when there is zero expectation it will ever be seen by anyone other than a few RR employees who already know the RR built it? Gloat plate just does not ring true.
As with historic bridges open to the public here in Wisconsin, maintenance typically does not include clearing snow during the winter--there simply is no justification for the cost of clearing snow due to the fact that in winter in Wisconsin, snow is anticipated, and the assumption is that anyone wanting to visit them will properly prepare by putting on appropriate clothing/boots. In fact, many of these bridges are on trails used by snowmobiles, and as such, REQUIRE a substantial snow covering to prevent damage to the decks from snowmobile track studs and ski wear bars.
She also added a few on bridges that had similar names so people "wouldn't get them confused", despite them all being in entirely different states: https://bridgehunter.com/ny/richmond/verrazano-narrows/
1) You demanded I post proof of builders and gloat plates using the same plaque shape.
2) My argument was, and still is, that the NYC&HR on that plaque is nothing more than the "County Name" on a dedication/gloat plate.
It's a giant "Hello! My name is:" sticker.
IF they'd built it, they'd have mentioned their own iron/steel works, a la B&O and their Mont Claire Shop, but they don't, they explicitly mention A&P Roberts Co./Pencoyd.
Actually, it's Dylan and I am not the one who took the construction photos, but thanks for your response!
Based on the age split of the spans, I'm fairly certain these were relocated.
You were lucky because you actually got to see the pre-stressed box beams before they were installed... you can see in your photos how they are hollow inside (hence the "box" designation). You can also see in your photos that before they are erected, they are individual beams, although if they are lined up on the bridge right beside each other (called Adjacent Box Beams) they have the appearance of a slab after being erected. This type of bridge is often called a Pre-Stressed Concrete Adjacent Box Beam (or girder) bridge. In dealing with historic bridges as those seen on this website, "concrete slab" typically refers to a traditional reinforced concrete structure with rebar inside, which is a poured concrete slab, rather than precast beams arranged to form a slab-like structure.
What is the correct terminology for the precast concrete structure that replaced the west approach trestle on this bridge? I have seen these referred to as concrete box girders. Is this the correct designation? What is the difference between these and a concrete slab bridge or a concrete stringer?
South of Sparks. The Niobrara National Scenic River brochure incorrectly says the Allen Bridge is south of Sparks.
Clark: I agree with your comments. I think calling them "gloat" plates may be a bit harsh. Granted a problem that continues today is that credit for bridge projects is given in this order:
Often the last two are omitted. This is unfortunate because they actually build the bridge.
But at the same time, all plaques provide historians useful information on bridges.
The loss of the bridge is tragic and extremely disappointing. However it is possible the county has left the remains there in an attempt to confirm whether any of the wrought iron (highly valued by blacksmiths and researchers) is desired by anyone. ODOT is making an active effort to foster better communication with counties about their historic bridges so the status of bridges can be better maintained and interested individuals can be kept up-to-date on any updates.
Sadly, this bridge was lost to fire on April 16, 2018. Photos and video of the fire can be found here:
I have the build dates of this structure in my records. I will post them. To me, the bridge appears to be a standardized span
The bridge was lost somewhere between 2008-2010, as historic aerials has aerial imagery of the bridge still intact that is dated to 2008. The bridge is gone in the 2010 image. It definitely looks to have been a flood victim, judging by how badly one of the main piers was pushed over. This line seems to have been sold off to the present day SKOL Railroad quite a long time ago. A 1986 ATSF Middle Division Track Chart (KS & OK) does not list this line under ATSF ownership.
Anticipated reopening May 1.
Update: South Front Street is completely underwater for about 2 miles leading up to where the bridge once stood on either side.
NJDOT is discussing possibly erecting a bailey truss bridge once the floodwaters recede in order to reopen the crossing - however the permanent future of a bridge here (or lack thereof) is still uncertain.
Thanks to Debra for the new photograph. I am glad that the bridge is still standing, but it could collapse at any moment. That pylon is precarious to say the least.
This one needs immediate action to save it. Otherwise, somebody is looking at an expensive environmental cleanup.
Still standing - still looks like the east side could come down at any time. Visited on 4/14/2018
One of several bridges (I never specified railroad.) you can find across the site where the "dedication plates" and builder's plates are the same.
2) Warrens with verts handle loads differently than those without verts
Same with Camelback, which is a derivation of the Parker type with a polygonal top chord of exactly five slopes.
Denoting subtypes that are functionally different from the original type isn't a redundancy.
Arches have been made from: Stone, brick, iron, steel, concrete, and even plastics (Though those currently stay in test labs.)
Specifying which type of arch (Concrete arch, Brick arch, Stone-and-brick arch, etc.) it is, isn't a redundancy. It's specificity.
If you're referring to the "Concrete" category Amanda created, it's pointless.
"Railroad" as a genericism exists in case James wants to install a filter people can use to filter all railroad bridges out.
The B&O's Mount Clare Shops had an ironworks and we have documented proof of said ironwork constructing Bollman and Fink trusses in the 1850s, with a dedicated bridge shop being built in 1882. At some point they stopped constructing their own bridges and started ordering from other manufacturers.
When you find out that the New York Central & Hudson River had their own personal ironworks, this can be a "gotcha"
PS: This also isn't a redundancy, because it's not just "Baltimore & Ohio Railroad" tossed in the builder box.
My mistake printing this twice.Didn't realize it.Oh well.S**t happens.
Just read in the Reading Eagle that the trail that runs over this bridge will be closed starting today while a crane is removing the logjam created under this bridge by debris and trees that fell in the water.A private grant in the amount of $60,000 was obtained for this project which will take 8 days to complete.
Much of this bridge was destroyed by flash flooding about an hour ago.
Although not officially confirmed by any sources, reportedly some substructure elements remain damaged but intact.
Nice review in today's New York Times of a graphic novel/comic book entitled “The Bridge: How the Roeblings Connected Brooklyn to New York.” which is about to be published. I look forward to buying a copy.
Here's the book review in NYT: "Building the Brooklyn Bridge, in Graphic Detail" https://nyti.ms/2H1pCLp
lovely little spot
I'll leave it to the rail experts to untangle the history, but based on comments on the linked page, it seems the bridge was built by the Georges Creek Railroad over the North Potomac rather the fairly small creek. The 1895 topo shows the RR as West Virginia Central and Pittsburgh. The other RR crossing in this area is marked as B&O in 1895.
"6) The "free market economy" cannot exist without governmental regulation. The moment you strip that away, the moment the free market ceases to exist and we veer further towards an oligarchy."
Wow, do you have the name of the laundry which did your brain washing? Oligarchy only exists when the government supports it. The main function of a just government is to prevent stealing and to make sure no one is forced to do things against their interest or wishes. Oligarchs generally use governments to enforce policies in their interest. If the oligarchs did not have government policy on their side they would cease to exist.
Take Walmart for example. They have been, since at least the Clinton administration, working to make politics work in their favor. Tax abatements, zoning, etc. If Walmart isn't benefiting directly they work to prevent competition from springing up through regulation which act as a barrier to entry for competition.
Do you suppose Carlos Slim, the Mexican telecom billionaire has to think very long about who would be his friend in the government?
The way to make a fortune into a massive fortune is to make the government your business partner, and limit your competition.
Can we use a term other than "gloat plate"? When we recall back a century or more, bridges were often very important additions to a community. The leaders responsible for getting the money, and organizing the acquisition and construction of a bridge played an important role in the prosperity of their community. These "Dedication Plates" can be an expression of the gratitude of the community. Universally referring to them in a disparaging way does not seem to go along with our site-wide respect for the transportation accomplishments of those in the past.
Please provide a couple of those numerous examples of gloat plates (listing politicians or executives that look like RR builder plates).
Provide the builder plates for the RR in question.
I added it as shown on the BUILDERS PLATE, Unlike others I did not edit it to my personal specifications, to appease my sense of...?
Yes Warren is a subtype, so? It is still redundant, it is not needed, it is simply a way to further describe what you have already described. "Concrete arch" and "concrete" categories. It is made of concrete? DUH it is a concrete arch. "Norfolk Southern Railway" is a "Railroad"? Dude, I am now laughing so hard I am almost crying, are you actually defending these as not redundant?
Free Market can only be regulated? You obviously do not understand either concept. Free Market=voluntary interactions=Moral. Regulated=supported by force (ultimately death as every single law is)=Immoral. It is shocking that an adult educated person in America could confuse the two.
Yes there are shades of grey in life. However, you are mistaken if you believe every government is not "evil". All governments are run on the bases of a monopoly of force and support of laws through aggression, intimidation and coercion (immoral). The very definition of tyranny is a government the prohibits actions to its people while it, itself, retains those actions. Ask yourself this-Do you have the Right to take your neighbors money without his permission? Do you have the Right to instigate aggression against your neighbor? If you do not, which I believe any reasonable person would agree, then how can you properly delegate a Right, you do not have, to the government. The founding Fathers were very aware of this, this is why the were insistent that if we allowed a government to use force over us that we would severely limit their authority but like all governments, they simply ignored the constraints and do as they please.
With that said, the plaque is pictured in the thread, do you think it is a builders plate, intended to show NYC&HR as the builders of the bridge?
They seem to be significant modern structures. It's odd that they would be closed and up for adoption/demo.
These are modern timber arches built in 2012
I have to admit I didn't think this bridge would last long the last time I visited---the abutment was clearly close to failure. With all the remains still on the bank a month and a half later, I'll assume nobody wants to be responsible for an abandoned bridge?
I’m thinking it might be a modern decorative bridge.
Any opinions on the materials on this one? The ashlar appears to be cast rather than cut.
Any idea when the arches were built?
Some of the NBI data for these bridges is wrong... it says that the bridges are modern and were built in 2013, and that they are in good condition as of 2016...
...however it would appear that such data is referring to the stringer bridge, as it was significantly rehabilitated in 2013 and would be in good condition in 2016.
........Guess that honey badger is tougher.....No wait the wolverine rises.......
love it !! very nice
Please remember that the world consists of shades of grey. No system is perfect. Not all governments are evil, not everyone who works within a bad organization is bad.
I've seen lots of well intentioned people/organizations do horrible things for the 'right' reasons and I've seen evil/bad people do really good things (not necessarily for the right reason...).
On old truss bridges there are often two plaques installed by the builder: 1. the builder's plaque. 2. the plaque listing the freeholders who gave the builder the job.
Actually, on Carlton Bridge it was the freeholders plaque that allowed the build date to be corrected as there was only a narrow window when the three served together!
Just my two cents.
1) Again, dogwhistles.
2) There are numerous examples of political gloat plates being the same pattern plaque as the manufacturers.
3) It is a redundancy, as the way you've added it, it's the same name as the railroad category, just in the oh-so-ironic reporting mark format.
4) It's a proposal for when we have actual proof of a "Railroad Bridge Department" designing/building/erecting the bridge.
We have Railway Age articles saying that MILW built their own concrete bridges.
John has made the supposition that Northern Pacific designed all their bridges, and has made cited arguments to support.
No such citation has been made here.
5) Warren w/ all verts is a subtype. Arches have been built in multiple mediums, so concrete is a valid identifier for categorization, as is "railroad".
6) The "free market economy" cannot exist without governmental regulation. The moment you strip that away, the moment the free market ceases to exist and we veer further towards an oligarchy.
Who contracted a mole to build a mountain?
1) The states did not choose the contracts, the counties did. And therein lies the source of the problem: Counties got bribed by companies to give them their lucrative annual bridge contracts (e.g. Webster County gave N.M. Stark the contract for all their concrete bridges in 1911.), and no state-level oversight led to those contracts going unchallenged.
The ISHC only mandated that bridges and roads be built to their standardized plans, and that bidding be open to all on a bridge-by-bridge/road-by-road basis instead an annual basis.
Creating an open, level bidding field is not "socialism", as you keep dogwhistling about.
2) We don't treat every builder plate the same. Hence why we omit politician names and only list the contractor and engineer/design firm from plates that feature both.
3) Redundant categories is not a deflection. It is a valid concern. You believe that the railroad should be listed as the designer. I know this won't end up being limited this to this bridge (Think "If you give a mouse a cookie."), and then we'll (Yet again.) have multiple categories for the same things.
Hence why I pitched using a singular generic "Railroad Forces/Railroad Bridge Department category (Also not a deflection. Pitching a plausible solution != deflection.) in which one can specify the railroad within parenthesis, like I went in and did with Mr. Wilgus as the chief engineer of the NYC&HR.
And to reply to your comment of "Thank you, however, for your valuable opinions, you are spot on, on many subjects.":
Thank you for actually doing fieldwork and taking numerous photographs of structures, especially remains.
John and yourself do a lot of legwork taking multiple hi-res detail shots of bridges some users wouldn't even bother visiting.
So while we may disagree a LOT, I can still appreciate your contributions as much as you seem to appreciate mine.
Not really, as those are still monopolies. Single companies still had exclusive control within those districts, making it impossible for local builders to flourish, or for another competitor to make a dent.
And the state didn't cause these monopolies to form. The problem was that prior to formation of the ISHC, the was little to no uniformity between the counties, and even less oversight. (Which I'm sure you'll somehow argue isn't a bad thing, based on the reply you posted while I was typing this up. I mean, it's not like a complete lack of oversight caused the banking crisis and fucked the world economy... ...Or unchecked lobbying (AKA legalized bribery) in our own government resulted in a government that listens to corporations more than their own constituencies or anything like that...)
And it's not deflection to correct you on your own historically inaccurate rebuttal to my point.
And my point still stands that the "NYC&HR" on the plaque doesn't actually mean anything related to the builder, and that your statement that "the railroad built the bridge" is false.
The plaque states that NYC&HR's then-chief engineer (Un-fun fact: He was ousted after an electric locomotive designed by him had a fatal derailment.) designed it, and that A&P Roberts fabricated/built it.
What the plaque doesn't actually tell us, is if railroad forces, day laborers, convict labor, or A&P Roberts themselves erected the bridge. You're purely guesstimating that they're the ones who erected it.
And your challenge is incorrect, as prior to DOTs (Then-called Highway Commissions) standardizing designs, only a few companies built bridges in a given region, snuffing out local competition.
In Iowa, the case was that the bridge companies had divided the state into districts, with certain companies having monopolies over their district.
e.g. Clinton Bridge & Iron Works in northeastern Iowa, J.E. Jayne & Sons (Re-badged Stupp Bros.) in Johnson County, the King & WIBCO duopoly in western Iowa, etc..
It wasn't until the ISHC standardized bridge designs (With multiple uncredited "underling" engineers beneath Conde McCullough and Anson Marston.) that those districts were really busted and small local contractors flourished.
You are welcome!
..........what happens when honey badgers and wolverines meet..........
Nice to see closer photos of this one.
It's already listed, you've just created a duplicate, superfluous category in a different box.
As for the rest of your drivel, I suggest you actually read up on the Iowa Stat Highway Commission's standardized designs and the Michigan Standardized Bridge Designs before bloviating.
That counterargument would work if and only if most state DOTs hadn't have designed their own standardized bridges in order to bust monopolies. (Iowa, Michigan, etc.)
2nd visit last weekend - little frosty but worth seeing again
Like this "Gloat plate"
Very cool spot - old bridge on same line just to east of this obviously removed, but this one pretty solid, rails removed, date-stamped abutments, snowed early AM, warmed up quick, melting as I left
Now, in cases of timber trestles, and in certain railroad-specific cases (The Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul, & Pacific is a glaring example of this), railroad's own bridge departments fabricated (In the cases of concrete and timber structures) and erected (In the case of pre-fabricated steel structures) bridges
I believe this preexisting "generic" category suffices for all those entries, without having to create multiple categories with the same railroad name: https://bridgehunter.com/category/builder/railroad-company-f...
This achievement in RR covered bridge building was later surpassed by this one at Marcus, WA.
The Washington & Great Northern crossed the Columbia on an eight span Howe truss bridge constructed by Porter Brothers Construction Company of Portland. The timber bridge was only the third to cross the American portion of the river and the first to be constructed in a single season. It opened in May 1902. Its construction was the last project that John F. Stevens would oversee before leaving Hill to become chief engineer of the Panama Canal. Its trusses were encased in vertical siding in 1914 making it, at 1200 feet in length, the longest covered bridge ever constructed west of the Mississippi. The railroad planked the deck in 1926 and opened the bridge as a toll crossing for automobiles.It was torn down in 1941 after Grand Coulee Dam closed.
I've only see one picture of it a museum in Colville, WA and scouring the internet has failed to yield any result.
Except the category for New York Central & Hudson River Railroad already exists
Having a duplicate category adds nothing, especially since the railroad's mention on the plaque serves nothing more than being the railroad equivalent of the County Gloat Plate*.
William J. Wilgus, the man who was also the architect of Grand Central Station, and A&P Roberts are the relevant builders.
(*For the reference of others, "County Gloat Plate" refers to a "builder plate" that carries the names of County XYZ commissioners and selectmen, +/- any actual mention of the engineers or contractors who actually built the structure.
The similarity here is that the "New York Central & Hudson River Railroad" serves the same function on this plate as "County XYZ" does on those plates.)
From the Natchez Democrat, dec. 22, 1907.
"one brick bridge (Spanish bayou) $948.74.
This is the bridge pictured above.
The railroad name on that plaque seems to be more of a title than anything.
In any case, I feel we should list the actual railroad company bridge engineers as such instead of making a bunch of redundant categories for every railroad.
Signs Unveiled Honoring '39 Disaster (2014)
I think its a situation where the railroad actually engineered the structure, and then contracted with A&P Roberts to actually built the structure. Assuming this is the case, they would be both a railroad and builder/engineer.
I am amazed that this one has not been demolished. As of a few years ago it was considered a high priority for replacement because it was thought to be just like the I-35W Bridge in Minneapolis. Apples and oranges.
Very interesting. I drove over this bridge in November, but I had no idea what had happened here. The road to this bridge is a rough ride, but the bridges on the route are awesome!
Trussed floor beams!
Nice set of photos. Looks like Union County has the potential to cash in on the tourism potential of old iron bridges like a certain neighboring county has with covered bridges. Somebody needs to suggest that the local authorities invest in some paint and repairs.These spans may never be able to support a truckload of hogs or soybeans but they definitely could serve as bike or pedestrian spans. Rusty gold as the Hawkeyes say on cable tv.
The comment that this bridge was replaced by a new new alignment of Hwy 61 in 1987 is incorrect. US 61 followed basically its current alignment through southern Warren County and Big Black crossing near Deer Park in Claiborne County for several decades as a two-lane highway prior to Mississippi's building out its main US highways to divided four-lane.
Detail of original railing section and later repair/replacement section.
Date of photos December 2003.
Partial collapse March 29, 1939, with 15 fatalities. Traffic between Jackson and Vicksburg was re-routed officially via Utica on MS 18 and MS 3 (now MS 27), with the Askew Ferry Road/Freetown Road route also available.
Contemporary photo credit unknown.
Warrior's Trail / Dixie Overland Highway / US 80 (pre-1929).
Photos taken December 2003.
Not seen one like this in Kansas. Love this thing. "Majestic" comes to mind....very cool
Hearty old sucker....top-east end of the staircasing Gallup Rd.
This one has been REPLACED
I made a webmaster request about that...
...a few years ago.
This one rather remote, and somewhat spooky. Walking down the old right-of-way from the east you first come to a large gap between mounds on the road where an old bridge obviously once stood, next not far west is a sold 2 span pony, next further west is this bridge, maybe 80-100 yards long with a giant sea of fine sand beneath it on both sides, bobcat, deer, and other animal tracks visible in the sand, bridge a little bit in shambles but mostly solid - fascinating old road, would love more background on it
Photos 1 and 2 of 8 for this listing are actually of the current i.e.new Green Island Bridge and should be moved to the separate listing which now extists for that span and deleted from this one.
This bridge has had an extra diagonal with turnbuckle added. This is an interesting little modification.
Trestle caught fire yesterday.
Leslie they are others like the old heron street you posted few of them are in illinos the 16th st swing bridge in Romeoville Illinois one 9th street bridge formerly in Lockport Illinois and one railroad bridge in Lemont Illinois and they're definitely on this site
There are a few in Wisconsin iirc.
Posted photos of aqueduct with repairs underway. Looks like repairs should be done by summer, though LOTS of silt needs to be dug out of miles of canal. That was a part of the cause of the aqueduct failing IMHO. I remember what it looked like 50 years ago and recently the canal has become very shabby.
Okay I have never seen a swing bridge with that design are there any other swing bridges with that design on the site?
Lee has an idea.
Here are Ardmore pics from same location. Don't even know if there is an entry, didn't find it on a quick search.
here are photos
Yeah, this scenario is different from what happened on the Lawrence, MA entry.
This is someone making a maliciously false post on a reputable source, and multiple people (Not just Amanda.) falling for it due to it being a reputable source.
The other was her taking locals' words as gospel, not fact-checking what they said with available materials (Both historicmapworks & historicaerials disproved the locals' claims.), then getting unnecessarily defensive about being told to fact check.
Apples to oranges
There were a couple of through trusses over the Blackwater that are now UCEBs. I don't recall a Monkey Mountain in Johnson County. There is such a place east of Grain Valley in Jackson, probably farther than students would want to drive just to hang out. Talking with a local when I visited Hobblet Bottom he spoke of a through truss near there but thought it was abandoned long ago. I have not found a location such as he described.
This is the sort of thing I enjoy exploring.
Monkey Mountain was apparently north of Warrensburg.
Here's a bridge that was poular with students, then removed in 2013:
Bridge #354 made the news. It is not good news. Again.
Closed due to advanced deterioration.
That is not a bascule bridge that is a swing bridge