Forum

Dave:

These MOBs (Mail Order Bridges) are of great controversy on this website. Some individuals may defend them as legitimate bowstring trusses. Other contributors such as myself do not consider them to be of interest. While we all have our own opinions of what makes a bridge historic or noteworthy, I will just provide my personal opinions of why I do not like seeing MOBs on this website.

1. These MOBs have no connection with historic bowstring bridges. A historic bowstring bridge would have counters, which are not present on this bridge. Additionally, bowstring bridges were assembled using built up members including Keystone Columns, Phoenix Columns, and the similar member patented by King. A historic bowstring bridge often incorporated cruciform members which would have been joined with pin-connections.

A MOB such as this bridge has none of those historic features. These bridges are constructed with welded connections.

2. MOBs are mass produced. Therefore they have become a common technology, much like concrete slabs or other uninteresting designs. Granted, all truss bridges are MOBs at some level, but they still required assembly beyond simply welding pieces together.

3. MOBs are often replacing historic bridges or used where a historic bridge could have been relocated. As an example, there are numerous hiking trails being developed in the United States right now. One would think that the historic truss bridges that are being demolished could be moved to some of these trails. Instead, the historic bridges are sent to China to be melted down, and these MOBs are showing up on the trails instead.

So, that is my reasoning for not including MOBs on this website. I am sure that others will disagree with me, but I thank you for reading my $0.02.

Wow, you found an aerial of this area of the county online? Would love to see that! I'm planning on getting over to our county museum to see if I can dig up more photography or information sometime soon. I agree, the piers look very much like the ones on the Williams covered bridge, although perhaps shorter. They also look somewhat like the ones on the Ft Ritner bridge. With there having been several covered bridges in my area,(Medora, Tunnelton, Rivervale, Stumphole, Williams)...I can't help but wonder if it was another JJ Daniels bridge.

I am from the French part of Sparta, by the way.

MODERNE/NON-HISTORIQUE!

Anonymous the Athenian says it is not even worth writing a poem about.

Same county engineer as Poweshiek. Enough said.

Hi all,

I've been trying to track down two bridges that reportedly feature in the 1973 James Bond film "Live and Let Die" that both appear during a boat chase sequence.

Both of these are almost certainly in the Louisiana bayou's, and may either be around Slidell or south of New Orleans.

The first is listed on various sites as "Crawdad Bridge" and features a world record breaking boat jump over a police car (although funnily enough I can't see a bridge anywhere in the scene!

The second is commonly listed as "Miller's Bridge" and features a police blockade which two boats break right through.

We now have two very similar brick arch bridges within a few miles of each other on the ATSF Railroad.

There were railroads in eastern Kansas prior to the Civil War. Naturally, a large number of bridges at that time would have been built of wood.

Brick arches were used during the Civil War era, so I would be interested to find out whether or not these two bridges could date from that period.

Another research project to add to my list...

It seems Section 106 will apply to any repairs/replacement of this bridge. I have only seen a couple crappy newspaper photos and a description from newspapers which can often be inaccurate, but it appears the end panels of the trusses of one leaf were severely damaged, and based on description, possibly may have been damaged or physically shifted in the area of the trunnion. This is all speculation based on the limited sources mentioned above. I will be monitoring this bridge's status closely. If the end panels are damaged on the leaf as it appears, you could consider a project similar to the ongoing Wells Street Bridge in Chicago, and just replace the damaged panels with replicas.

I think this guy is in the running for the biggest bonehead award for 2013! Like the Traer Bridge, I'm afraid this bridge will become a victim of stupidity and will be demolished and replaced! ;-C

I think that was the secret plan of Tama County: hire some banditos to purposely cut down a tree and have it land onto the bridge so that they can provide contractors with a head start on the demolition plan and justify reasons for demo-ing a National Register Landmark! Such a sad day indeed; esp. as I had this bridge on my list of bridges to visit during the HB Weekend in August.... :-(

Link: http://thebridgehunter.areavoices.com/2013/05/13/traer-bridge-to-be-replaced-by-loggers/

Well, it is in the inundated category already. If there is a submerged category, perhaps inundated and submerged should be merged.

Alex,

A bunch of crooks mis-managed MWLW from the late 1950's on. Bookkeeping lies hid loses on eastern parts of the road by charging costs to the western extension. It looked like W.E. was loosing the money until they shut it down. Then it was bankruptcy for the whole railroad.

Go through here all the time, but I guess I never realised until recently how interesting it is, architecturally. A nice contrast to the vast numbers of UCEBs in these parts.

This bridge was destroyed by a logging truck in the fall of 2011. It was replaced by a modern concrete structure in the spring of 2013.

just found and listed 2 otherwise unlisted lenticular bridges. anyone having more info on them please add. enjoy!

http://bridgehunter.com/nh/grafton/gale-river/

http://bridgehunter.com/nh/grafton/iron-furnace/

How stupid does one have to be to do this? Look out the window and see if the enormous mass of steel called a freighter is no longer visible under the bridge. Then, and only then, lower the bridge. This is not complicated or difficult. What an idiot.

Bridgetender arrested on suspicion of intoxication.

"Friends don't let friends operate bridges drunk."

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130512/METRO01/305120355/1409/metro/Bridge-operator-arrested-after-Jefferson-Ave-span-falls-freighter

Freighter Herbert C. Jackson collides with Jefferson Street Bridge in Detroit. Bridge is impassible until further notice.

Is it my imagination or do these piers bare a resemblance to the piers on the Williams covered bridge?

I've been doing some Internet research and found aerial photo from 1936 that shows the bridge was gone even then. A 1909 map shows "Mitchell Pike" crossing at that point.

Beautiful set of piers that look to be in great condition still. Satellite also shows that both abutments appear to be intact as well.

I would agree that this almost certainly represents a much older (and possibly original) crossing perhaps from an old turnpike... ie. Bedford to Paoli. It's pretty close to the current crossing and I don't think the piers look substantial enough to be from a railroad.

Looks like it's going to the scrapper and they don't care about damage.

Unfortunately Mr. Manning, It would appear that this bridge's fate is what's locked...

I had a hunch that the trees being cut down might indicate upcoming construction, and unfortunately Google turned this up in a search (copied from the cached pdf):

IOWA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION

MAJOR ITEMS - PRELIMINARY QUANTITY REPORT

(for information only)

Proposed Letting Date: March 19, 2013 10:00 A.M.

Proposal ID: 86-7710-601

Proposed Contract Period: Late Start Date of 07/15/13 with 70 WORK DAYS

Project No: BROS-7710(601)--8J-86

Type of Work: BRIDGE REPLACEMENT - CCS

Route: MILL STREET Length: 0.10 miles

Location: IN THE CITY OF TRAER, OVER WOLF CREEK

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quantity/Unit

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ITEMS FOR A 130'-0 X 30'-0 CONTINUOUS CONCRETE SLAB BRIDGE

2102-2710070 EXCAVATION, CL 10, RDWY+BORROW 5,133 CY

2403-0100010 STRUCT CONC (BRIDGE) 421 CY

2404-7775000 REINFORC STEEL 81,889 LB

Hard to tell from the pictures but this looks like someone cutting trees dropped one on the bridge. Any info on what happened, who is responsible, future prospects?

Thanks Clark, very interesting!

I wonder if this bridge should be listed in the Submerged Category?

Great pictures Daniel. This group of bridges have stood for a long time abandoned and undocumented. It's nice to see the information coming together on this site.

Very nice to see pictures. Thanks, Daniel!

pictures taken 5/11/2013

Major hat tip to Tedd Liggett for sending me a picture and the location of this one.

http://teddliggett.smugmug.com/

It shows up in Bing bird's eye:

http://binged.it/19dvX9S

pictures taken 5/11/2013

Have always been curious about what was standing here in the past. I think I'll do some research and see what I can learn and hopefully we can get more info on this one up here.

Rode the bikes down with my brothers and took a stroll across this one today...one of my favorites. All the planks are there still, and several more appear to have been replaced since my last visit about a year ago. Someone has tried to drive over the concrete road blocks on the south (Washington Co.) side of the bridge.

if you think that a scam will work here....then I have a bridge i would like to sell you.

Remarkably, while searching around here today I found significant amounts of scrap metal on the south bank. I plan on going back to find what else is down there sometime soon.

Bridgehunter.com is probably not the best place to try out your scams...

I found a source online that also referred to this bridge as the Four Mile Bridge, so I'm assuming this is the common name for it. I've edited the bridge's entry accordingly.

The plate in photo 2 is a USGS survey mark. It indicates a point that is surveyed accurately enough that it can be used as a reference point for other surveys.

Looking at the spacing, I am guessing that the three concrete pillars replaced one steel support. I suspect that the original steel support would have spanned what is now the median of the interstate.

Pure speculation...

Did this bridge always have those three concrete piers; or were they added when the interstate was built to replace the steel ones?

My research indicates this is one of only two seven arch bridges in the World. The other I think is in Spain. That locals tired of a poor crossing to traverse while traveling to Farmington from North of the River,pooled together resources,some money others voluteered labor,and constructed the bridge. A replica of the other one I mention. Not certain where its at, but I recall reading about this somewhere and that both bridges are unique in design. That the first being somewhat reknown therefore this one built as a copy of it.

Okay, interesting. It looks like the site may have three listings for two bridges. Perhaps someone in the area could sort that out for us. Mr. Dooley, it looks like you were in the area recently. Could you provide some insight?

Another fine example of how Milwaukee's western extension was a well built railroad abandoned too early.

The missing span and pier was blown up several years ago, I cannot recall the exact year. The reason this was done was that the piers of the truss bridges are shifting in the riverbed, throwing the spans out of alignment.

One of which is the Haskins Bridge.

http://bridgehunter.com/mo/newton/jolly-mill-park/

Jolly Mill actually has two bridges.

For a culvert it is mildly interesting. It appears original and over a century old, and the bell and spigot clay pipe is unusual.

It is good to see photographs on here, but this listing should be merged with the other Jolly Mill bridge in the same county.

This is a duplicate listing.

Bridge was damaged this morning, and likley completely destroyed

http://raccoonvalleyradio.com/2013/05/train-derailment-east-of-grand-junction/

I went to check on the status of the bridge yesterday with a friend, and it now can be confirmed that the bridge has been removed. I've included photos for confirmation below. The last photo is the sign from the county about the pending status of the bridge, which was seemingly just thrown on to the bank of the creek during the removal. Classy.

This is a duplicate posting of the existing bridge, Auburn-Forest Hill, in same county.

This is just like the bridge I found a couple years back, buried in the water of the Marion Reservoir by Marion, Kansas. Except that one I believe was a concrete culvert.

thank you. it looks like original wrought iron porch railing.

HERE'S THE FIRST ONE. IT'S FROM THE ROCHESTER (NY)PUBLIC LIBRARY WEBSITE (ROCHESTER IMAGES).

HERE'S ANOTHER PHOTO FROM THE RPL.

are they any pictures of those iron pickets?

Jayhawk:

Thanks for the tip. That is some interesting imagery. It does look like the bridge is partially buried in mud.

I guess that is one way to preserve a bridge. Too bad we don't have Anonymous the Pompeiian. He could provide good information about buried structures (although this is in mud, not a pyroclastic flow).

Mr. Stewart, please check your caps lock key.

No problem, John;

It's sometimes hard to tell what's what from way up here in the satellite.

I don't see that the Indian Creek or Judith River trestles have been added yet, by the way.

THE ORIGINAL SQUIRE WHIPPLE BOWSTRINGS HAD RAILINGS IF THEY HAD SIDEWALKS. THESE WERE IRON PICKET RAILINGS. BRIDGES IN THE MORE URBAN AREAS HAD CANTILEVERED SIDEWALKS.

No way this was built 1860. I wonder who to contact to find out a real date...

Railing on bowstrings

Intriques me

I also have to do something

Wire cable was not good

Perhaps Wooden railing is Best

It was good enough in the 40s

Tough question but one coming up for me because I know that a bridge that has had nothing for 130 years will certainly be forced to have some kind of railing system.

Any ideas?

I stand corrected. Serves me right for assuming that there was only one large trestle near a town I've never seen in a state I've never visited.

Bridge 1850 is open to traffic. We did a fracture-critical inspection on it today. A section of approach road south of the bridge that had been washed out has been repaired with concrete pavement and a lot of rip-rap.

This picture was taken 7 May 2013 from a similar position to the Steve Conto picture from 2012. View is facing south by southeast in both pictures. Note that the span itself APPEARS to be intact; it's the failure of the east pier of the aqueduct that brought it down. Also note the water flowing into Nettle Creek from the I&M Canal. This water flow has already eroded the clay lining of the canal for a distance starting about 30 yards east of the aqueduct site. The longer the delay in doing SOMETHING to contain this flow of water, the more difficult it will be to actually place the aqueduct back in service and rewater the canal. Prior to the aqueduct colapse, the water level at this section of the I&M was at the historic in-service level. You could canoe from about 4 miles WEST of the aqueduct all the way to Chanahon and beyond.

This replica bridge was done right

It surely belongs on this site

No known criteria would this bridge fail

'cept of course for that modern rail

But this one is made of wood

I would have added it if I could

My previous comment was wrong

This bridge does truly belong

A MOB of such great size

Will make you shield your eyes

Our bodies have such great reflexes

Not everything's bigger in Texas

In this valley, a stench has permeated.

'Tis a MOB the Governator should have terminated!

MODERNE/NON HISTORIQUE!

Fascinating. Since this is called Curtis Bridge road, I assume the Curtis Bridge was located where the road ends at 41.807944,-91.646577.

One person can make a difference, and in this case, that person retired from TxDOT last year. It's too bad because while TxDOT did specify rivets in the last three projects, the next "REHABILITATION" is just that. A rehab of a very historic bridge that is next to a park and a restaurant and would get a lot of visitors. The TxDOT bridge division trio that I spoke to says that they haven't given up on the in-kind restorations, but weren't comfortable with that on this bridge. And, they have to come up with the procedures for field rivets and inspection procedures for field rivets, in order be "comfortable". That was their word.

I kept trying to get them to change the bid by an addendum or put the bridge letting back, but no. Rather than create an addendum to the bid which lets tomorrow allowing field rivets to be used if we create those procedures, like a Site Specific Erection Plan, they have chosen to make it clear that all of the riveted lattice, 70% of it, should be replaced with high tension bolts, and four years ago they didn't even make the fake rivet headed bolts. My engineer professor friend said that the high tension bolts were "stronger", but the rivets ARE STRONG ENOUGH. Not to mention that the bolts won't work on the inclined end posts repairs. The division engineer said they were going to look into that. I suggested putting the job letting back but, no. I guess it is a press release and letters to those powers that be that Workin' Bridges, for one, thinks they have made a mistake that should and could be corrected.

Now we have been doing rivets a long time, and bridge and building rivets for 150 plus years. Rivets weren't replaced because they weren't good enough, according to Nels, but because the bottom line said one guy can turn a bolt where it took a gang to do the high quality work.

Sounding rivets, an ASHTO Standard to inspect for problems has been part of the specifications for inspections according to the 2000 edition. Other procedures for process and procedure for the hot rivet process must be available somewhere, and should not need to be created again.

My question, if they are sure the previous three bridges are fine, but want to now limit the risk of a "black eye" (again, their words) then why not use the Worley Bridge in Milam County as the text book case for finalizing those standards and procedures? It is the perfect bridge for that.

Two steps forward, 10 back. Why does that happen with engineers, and states, and opinions rather than facts? Case by case, person by person, we will prevail at this battle of design engineers not interested in the knowledge that is available from other sources, including fabricators, metal smiths, professors, engineers and other passionate people about our history.

I won't love going to see this bridge with bolted lacing on the verticals. And I am glad that I have the power to speak about these issues and am not tied to a desk, not too much risk sitting there.

Replacement of the outer section of the north leaf was completed on time this morning, and CTA trains resumed using its upper deck for this morning's rush hour. The Brown and Purple Line 'L' trains carry an estimated 77,000 passengers daily over this bridge. The lower deck remains under construction, and will be closed to cars and pedestrians until November.

Chicago Tribune article: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-well-street-bridge-cta,0,4653495.story

Chicago Tribune photo gallery. Last photo is especially interesting, from 1921: http://galleries.apps.chicagotribune.com/chi-130228-wells-street-bridge-pictures/

Kudos to the local folks who balked at the idea of their historic bridge being replaced by a concrete ugly... AND more kudos to the Boone County Commissioners who actually listened!

The only thing that distracts from the beauty of this location is the constant traffic noise from I-65 that is just to the West of here. But it may just be the Interstate that saved the bridge from already being removed.

From the photos and from Google Satellite view, the bridge appears to be open and in active use by "4-legged pedestrians" (cattle) to cross the creek.

I am currently leading a charge to save the last span of the bridge. I have heavy support from Des Moines historians, who either want it rehabbed as an overlook, or relocated. I have made a save the bridge page too. I think we can preserve the remaining history here.

https://www.facebook.com/SaveTheDSMRRBridge

This is a prime example of a MOB being used where a historic bridge could have been installed.

I knew this bridge during the last 30 years of its existence. It never was much to look at, little more than a continuation of Grand Ave that was raised above the railroad tracks. At that tme the bridge was already failing with rusted expansion joints and railings, although SLU painted the railings SLU blue. There were several places where rain or snow melt ponded on the roadway. When buses went through the puddles, they sent soaking sheets of dirty water onto the pedestrian walkways and any pedestrian who happened to be there. In winter time the sprayed areas became coated with ice and dangerous. After the metrolink stations were added, busses and cars stopping for passangers would block the outer lanes of traffic on the bridge creating congestion.

I was glad to see the bridge replaced. The new bridge is nicer, but I wish I could have seen the 1891 bridge. I read that there had been an earlier bridge located down in Mill Creek Valley. It was not very large and just extended across Mill Creek. From the description, Grand Ave descended from Forest Park Ave into the valley, crossed railroad tracks and the creek before it became part of the sewer system. Grand then ascended to Chouteau Ave. It is understandable why the raised bridge was built.

Hey, that shot of the south entrance is worth the crawl! Thanks, Cody.

New Google imagery confirms that this thing was out of the water and and dry last summer. It looks like it's partially sunken in mud.

We've had a lot of rain in central Kansas this month so it could be submerged again.

Does this bridge have any particular significance?

The I&M/Nettle Creek Aqueduct collapsed early 19 April 2013 due to heavy rains and record-setting flooding in the area. According to published reports, Nettle Creek's level rose to a point where it was roughly equal to the level of the I&M Canal. Between this rise in the level of Nettle Creek and the additional water flowing into the I&M Canal from the unusually heavy rain in the area, the east support wing was undercut and failed. As of 06 May 2013, there are no published reports on plans to reconstruct the aqueduct. However, this aqueduct will have to be reconstructed to preserve this section of the historic Illinois and Michigan Canal.

I visited the overpass yesterday. At first it appeared that that 1971 rehabilitation had involved replacing the steel stringers with concrete, but the concrete sheathing is damaged in places, showing the steel beams. There's a fair amount of old spalling on columns and beams, especially the older ones, but none appears substantial enough to cause concern.

There'd been a small brush fire down the tracks from the overpass and, at first, I associated that with the blackening of the beams and deck, but it is probably just a few decades of diesel smoke.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/nakrnsm/8711911735/in/photostream

http://www.flickr.com/photos/nakrnsm/8711911959/in/photostream/

Union Pacific trains roar many times daily under this bridge at well over 50+ mph before crossing the new concrete Kate Shelley High Bridge completed East of this bridge. I believe that this bridge is sometimes referred to as the "Humpback Bridge".

Photo taken Winter 2013.

The Iowa Interstate Railroad bridge also over Walnut Creek is located just North of the Grand Avenue Bridge. Photo taken April 2013.

Demo continues...

Demo continues....

It seems the only factual error is the date of 1910; about 32 years before Donald Bailey designed his namesake truss. The rehab date of 1973 apparently is the date the Bailey truss replaced the 1910 bridge.

The bridge is 40 years old, and you've photo documented it. Perhaps it is best to not remove this entry.

....Or did you nominate the bridge itself for removal? They could put in a nice UCEB here. 8^)

It appears that this bridge is long gone. I set the street view to focus on two crosses at the side of the road near the present bridge. It seems appropriate. RIP.

Hmm......

..... the Sage Creek trestle appears to be about 4 miles in a generally northerly direction up the tracks from the Indian Creek trestle, at 47.255524,-109.756765.

Demo has started on the Grand Avenue Bridge over Walnut Creek

and Grand Avenue will be closed for the Summer of 2013.

This bridge is located just West of the Des Moines, Iowa/West Des Moines, Iowa dividing line of 63rd Street which is also regarded as 1st Street West Des Moines, Iowa. Photos taken Spring 2013.

March 2013

Where is it today? Kinda hard to spot it or see signs/evidence or clues to where it was.

Google Maps appears to show that the bridge has been demolished.

Old Rock Island logo barely visible on both the North and South sides of the bridge. March 2013.

Unfortunately I called the local historical department in 2011 or 2012 and inquired about this bridge and they told me that it collapsed in a flood and the remains are in the creek. If that is so, it is sad, but if scrappers have not got to it, maybe someone can salvage the remains--hint, hint......

This I wonder though, for the Northport Bowstring Bridge. That bridge was originally a four span bowstring bridge. Only one is said to still remain, i.e., the preserved one in Northport, AL. I wonder if this bridge (Half Chance) is one of those "missing" spans. Then I will go further.....what happened to the other 2 spans if this is one of them?

As should be plainly obvious from the photo, there is no way the current structure dates to 1910. The locals I talked to believe this bridge replaced a bridge washed out in Tropical Storm Agnes in 1972, and the National Bridge Index never noted the new construction of what was supposed to be a temporary structure. I nominate this for removal.

florida. This bridge is currently closed and being replaced. The anticipated completion date of construction is November 2013.