The caption reads "New bridge to Booneville Sanatorium" [Photo provided by the Arkansas Highway & Transportation Department]
BH Photo #100643
Well I'm coming late to this party. But Mr. Bowden could not have crossed this bridge, I grew up here too and I have crossed over the Petit Jean River so many times going up the hill, to Ione or Mansfield. The relief bridge which was much smaller and was not a pony bridge was replaced in 1980, it is on hwy 23 not sure the distance from the Petit Jean, not far. And if a person is brave enough stop and check it out..the plaque that is. The bridge over the Petit Jean River has been there since 1960. So those of us born in the 60's couldn't have driven across it in the 80's.
Mr. Houp, I have read many of your posts on here and do indeed admire your work... I felt I should add that!
I have to agree with Wayne here.
While I do respect the countless hours of research that Mr. Houp has put forth in regards to historic bridges in Arkansas, the belittling and degrading remarks that he made only serve to distract from his accomplishments. While there is nothing wrong with disagreement between two people, it can certainly be handled in a more adult-like manner.
Jim Cooper and I do much corresponding on bridges here in Indiana. He is the methodical researcher who knows how to dig the answers out of the dusty chambers of county court houses and museums. I, on the other hand, have had little to no experience at this style of research but rely instead on my 30+ years of gleaning information from every possible source one could imagine. Our partnership has worked well to help document spans here in the Hoosier state. It would be nice if Messrs Houp and Bowden could do the same for the state of Arkansas.
Wayne: Good to hear from you again. Please let me explain to you in simple terms. Lets say I gave you a history to read. 3 years later you come back and reply "I refute what is in this history." Then I reply, "Did you read the history?" And you reply, "No". My question is this, plain & simple, HOW CAN YOU REFUTE AND HOW CAN YOU DOUBT SOMETHING YOU HAVEN'T READ? This is ludicrous! I published my history on the Fuller Ford Bridge,(Mag.#2) back in 2008. He knows this has been published and he has been told numerous times it is available at the Booneville Library. The part on the Sanatorium Bridge you have misconstrued was just a joke and should not have been taken any other way. I have known him long enough to do this! C.B. should have first read the bridge history and then made the appropriate comment or "refute". Please take the time to read the "Magazine #2 bridge comments from bottom to top. This will answer a lot. Yes, I do have years of experience, but I would & have never put anyone down. It was never my intent. I am insulted when someone makes false statements, but cannot back it up with documentation. If you'd like a free copy of my Fuller Ford Bridge history please send me your mailing address and I'll promptly send it off to you. Respect & appreciate your opinion. Would like to meet you in person. Thanx!
Mr. Kizziar I assume you didn't see where this started on the Magazine #2 bridge. The last time Mr. Houp posted was 2008 and Mr. Bowden decided to be rude and tell Mr, Houp in 2011 that he had to refute the hours of research and then when Mr. Houp tells him that documentation is where he gets his information Mr. Bowden come back with "the reason we don't want anything to do with you is you research it therefore it's the law and your I'm god like attitude."
So maybe Mr. Houp is a little upset but I didn't take it that he was cutting Mr. Bowden down. I have a question for you how can you refute anything that you haven't read or have researched it, it is vitally important to use the 5 "W's" Who, What, When, Where and Why this is the basic he should have learned in school. Why hasn't Mr. Bowden before opening his mouth and insulting Mr. Houp, just went to the Booneville library as Mr. Houp suggested? This would solve the problems, Just my 2 cents worth.
J. Randall Houp you are correct in your historical assessment of this and many other bridges. You are wrong in the way choose to address and talk down to people. Instead of debating Mr. Bowden in a friendly manner you choose to, and I quote, ask him "Charles what have you been smoking?" and advised him to repeat after you in "Documentation , documentation, documentation." You also told him "Good boy" as if he were a child or a dog that needed correction. While we appreciate your field of study and contribution to documenting historical bridges I, for one, do not appreciate you talking down to Mr. Bowden. Most of us are rank amateurs who do not have higher education like yourself. We do this because we have a love of things historical , in this case bridges. I do not mind having my facts corrected if I am wrong on something . In fact I welcome it because I want to know the real history of the subject. It makes me mad ,pure and simple, when someone talks the way you do to someone else. We know you are educated and have done your research , if you want us to respect your knowledge , and you yourself, show us a little respect in turn. There, I have put in my two cents worth. It may be deleted by Mr. Baughn or whoever moderates the comments but I have said my piece . This is not "Anonymous" this is Wayne Kizziar .
Appreciate the replies. Nathan: This was a brand new ALL cement bridge built at this location by the Arkansas Highway Commission in 1960. Definitely not relocated. Clark: Good Eye! I checked the length of the Sanitorium Bridge and it didn't match up at all with the former 1929 bridge at Booneville. On top of that, the bridge currently sitting at Short Mountain Creek has a 1928 plaque on it. The steel pony was moved there in 1957 and the steel pony at Booneville wasn't taken out 'til 1960. The current pony at Short Mountain Creek was put in 1957 after the original steel bridge at that locaion was destroyed by a milk truck. Arkansas Highway 22 had several of these pony bridges built on it from Ft. Smith to Dardanelle in the late 1920s. These were taken out in the late 1950s and I tend to believe that it is one of those bridges that use to be on Ark. 22 now sitting at Short Mountain Creek just north of Paris. Have gone thu' all the Booneville newspapers from 1899 until present and have also gone thu' all the Paris papers from 1901 'til present. Not much help there. THANX!
It is not my intent to dispute anyone's beliefs about when this bridge was built. However just because the bridge has a plaque on it saying "1960" does not mean that is when the bridge was built. Reused/relocated bridges, or even rehabbed bridges may have misleading plaques on them. I would suggest contacting the owner of this bridge and reviewing the original plans if the construction date is uncertain.
This thread got me thinking--what might Mr. Bowden be recalling?
Check out the Short Mountain Creek Bridge in "Related". Similar enough to be a twin....
Mr. Houp is right on this one. I wrote about this bridge for my Arkansas History class at UAFS. I have seen the documentation that Randall is talking about. It can be researched at the Fort Smith Main public library.
Both of you are so correct. I do though, invite you both to visit this bridge and read the plaque for yourselves. It is attached to the east end of the south side of the bridge. It reads, "1960". This bridge was constructed in the identical location as the 1929 bridge. Also check out the previous newspaper listed. Appreciate your comments. Thanx!
So true. We identified a misnomer on our Bridge Name using the landscape background of a photo that was identified as the McDowell Bridge. Using other eyewitness info, we were able to request a name change for our bowstring to McIntyre.
It's tough to pin down the histories of some of these bridges for sure. We are trying to impress the Keeper of the Register that Moving a Bridge is an HISTORIC EVENT. That would allow for some of these bridges to move from their existing site to a different one where the structure can be utilized and still retain their historic listing, although their historic value has not been diminished.
Past and Present
Keep it to conversations where their is possiblity for discussion. It seems to be a lost art.
Maybe we need a page for the existing bridge, with the plaque photo, and a link between it and this one in "related".
In crossings with multiple bridges in the same location, especially similar ones, individual pages for each may help people identify which bridge they remember from long ago.
Many relatively inexperienced bridge fans add valuable information to the site with their recollections. The more knowledgeable researcher may have to provide additional information to give context to these recollections. Allow readers to decide who is right or wrong if they require such a judgement.
Charles: You've never driven across this bridge and this is a definite fact and is now docummented as follows. You were born 1963, the bridge that stands there now was built in 1960. SEE PLAQUE ON BRIDGE. The old bridge that you never drove across was built in 1929. SEE: SOUTHWEST TIMES RECORD, APRIL 28, 1929, PAGE 2, COLUMNS 3,4,5. Reads in part, "...picture of the new bridge across Petit Jean river on the road from Booneville to the state sanatorium. I was born in Ft. Smith, Arkansas in 1950 and have written two 1,000 page Arkansas History books; what have you done? Speculation, hear-say, and guessing has no place in historical research or documentation.
I don't care what your documentation says, i am telling you i used to drive across this bridge and i was not born until 1963. Are you from Booneville/Magazine area ? Did you drive across these bridges as you were growing up? I did, i grew up there.
Charles: What the heck have you been smoking? This was the 9th of 9 steel bridges built across the Petit Jean River between 1898 and 1929. This bridge was constructed in 1929 well before Arkansas 23 went that direction. I have a copy of the original newspaper dated 1929 with the bridge picture in it. There were also 3 smaller bridges located between the Petit Jean River,(the 1929 bridge), and the City of Booneville. Now repeat after me; "Documentation, Documentation, Documentation." Good Boy!
I made the june 12, 2010 post here, don't know why it shows 'anonymous.' Allow me to state this again, i am certain the info posted here is wrong. This bridge was not dismantled in 1961, rather i believe that is the year it was built. I was born in 1963 and this is the only bridge i knew across the Petit Jean on hwy. 23 south, it was replaced/upgraded in the 80's.
I think the dates here are skewered. It says this bridge was replaced in 1961 but I remember this pony truss structure, drove across it many times in my life and i was not born until 1963. The Truss was the only thing interesting about this bridge over the Petit Jean.